# Is religion the main reason for the Israel/Palestine conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757 "2012-05-03T14:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/21 "2012-05-03T20:58:44Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > This is incorrect. For example, the UN partition plan in the late 40s would have created an Arab State and a Jewish State. The Jewish state would have been significantly smaller than Israel is today. Jerusalem would have been under international control. > > The Jews accepted the UN partition plan. Chaim Weizmann famously stated that the Jews would accept a state “the size of a tablecloth.” > > The Arabs rejected the UN partition plan and went to war to put an end to Israel. > > This is also incorrect. For one thing, there was no group known as “Palestinians” until 40 or so years ago. Second, a lot of the Palestinian Arabs immigrated to the area in the 20s and 30s seeking economic opportunities. > > The Jews were willing to give up Jerusalem in 1948. Also note that before 1948, Jerusalem was never a capital or seat of government for the Arabs or Ottomans. > > I disagree, since there’s no evidence that a compromise would end the dispute. There’s no point in compromising with a party who wants to destroy you and pretty much all of the credible evidence indicates that the Arabs (generally speaking) want to destroy Israel. > > Let me ask you this: What serious concessions have the Arabs offered to make in order to get peace? I’m not sure I understand - are you suggesting that the current peace proposal of the Israelis is the 1948 borders and Jerusalem as an international city? I suspect the Arabs would grab that offer in an instant. No, we’re talking about taday. Today, according to former government strategists, the government has ZERO INTEREST in making a compromise with the Palestinians. Are you suggesting there was nobody in Palestine between 150AD and 1900AD? Obviously not. So who was there, how long, and what their claims are is irrelevant. Somebody was there farming the land that was arable, or herding goats. whether you call them “Palestinians”, or Hashemites, or Ottoman subjects, or whatever, they were there. "There were no Palestinians until 1930"sounds like the sort of revisionist history needed to justify stealing the land. Legitimate residents at the time of the war fled from the land they legitimately owned and were not allowed back. As a short-term strategic tactic that’s perfectly understandable in any war. As a long term solution - it has to be addressed better than that, and stealing there land under questionable legal pretext is not a good start. Arabs - think “mother of all battles” - speak in bluster and boastfulness, not quiet modesty and realism. It’s part of their culture. In the bargaining atmosphere of the Bazaar, you do not start with “this is our bottom line”. As Sadat and King Hussein, and eventually even Arafat showed, they can reach some realistic accomodation given the right motivation. What they cannot do is cave in during negotiations and then face their home crowd, because their home crowd has guns. I think it’s convenient for the radicals on both sides to keep the pressure up. Oh, and the Arabs are the crazier and stupider of the sides in this dispute, so it will take a lot of time and patience to undo this mess. I just think Israel had better take the peace process seriously, before a more populist Egyptian government opens the floodgates to Gaza and allows all sorts of trouble to descend on Israel. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/22 "2012-05-03T21:11:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I’m not sure I understand - are you suggesting that the current peace proposal of the Israelis is the 1948 borders and Jerusalem as an international city? Not at all, I’m simply suggesting that the Jews have been willing to make concessions – big concessions. While the Arabs have not. > [@](#): > > I suspect the Arabs would grab that offer in an instant. I doubt that they would if they had to make big concessions of their own. > [@](#): > > No, we’re talking about taday. Today, according to former government strategists, the government has ZERO INTEREST in making a compromise with the Palestinians. Netanyahu himself said a few months ago that Israel was willing to make big concessions to get peace. Of course, you may think he’s lying, but why are you so sure that these “former government strategists” (whoever they are) are telling the truth? > [@](#): > > Are you suggesting there was nobody in Palestine between 150AD and 1900AD? No. > [@](#): > > "There were no Palestinians until 1930"sounds like the sort of revisionist history needed to justify stealing the land. The word “stealing” suggests that the land has a legitimate owner. Seems to me that the land has been under control of so many different groups that it’s not reasonable to point at one particular group and designate that group as the owner. Unless your criteria is the oldest identifiable group, in which case it’s the Jews who are the owners. > [@](#): > > Legitimate residents at the time of the war fled from the land they legitimately owned and were not allowed back. As a short-term strategic tactic that’s perfectly understandable in any war. As a long term solution - it has to be addressed better than that, and stealing there land under questionable legal pretext is not a good start. I’m not sure what your point is here. There are few polities in the world with a “good start.” For example, many Jews were kicked out of Gaza in the late 40s and their land taken. Same thing with Iraq. Heck, same thing with Hebron and Jerusalem. > [@](#): > > Oh, and the Arabs are the crazier and stupider of the sides in this dispute, so it will take a lot of time and patience to undo this mess. I agree. If Israel were run by followers of Meir Kahane, there would be no chance of a peace deal no matter how reasonable the Arabs tried to be. Well, the Arab side is run by the Arab equivalents. > [@](#): > > I just think Israel had better take the peace process seriously, before a more populist Egyptian government opens the floodgates to Gaza and allows all sorts of trouble to descend on Israel. Exactly what do you think Egypt might do or not do? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/23 "2012-05-03T21:20:56Z")
All conflicts are ultimately about land. When a society (defined loosely as all of the social systems in an area) has too many pressures on it (either through strained resources or large scale inequalities, or even just a need to create shared identities as part of the nation building process) it will start to crack. It will crack along whatever line is easiest- this may be by ethnicity, religion, language, or whatever. If there is nothing handy, people will make something up. The “ethnic” conflict between the Tutsis and Hutus were between people who shared a language, culture, and gene pool…in other words, they shared everything that makes an “ethnicity” an ethnicity. But it was the most obvious crack in land-poor, politically unstable Rwanda, so that’s where it cracked. These cracks provide the breaking point, and they also provide the fuel. It’s hard to sell a land grab, but it’s easy to sell a higher cause. A lot of this stuff operates differently on different levels. Often the people on the ground have a very different understanding of the conflict than the people at the top. Both of these understandings need each other to keep the conflict going. You see this a lot in rebel groups- the leaders at the top are often thinking of the spoils, while the ground troops may buy the ideology. The Middle East is still in the process of forming nations. It went through a lot of bullshit in the COld War (and after…) that has made that process a lot longer and more difficult than it should be. Forming a nation is often a bloody process, as the basic definition of a nation is founded in the idea of a single power being able to control violent force in a territory. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/24 "2012-05-04T06:52:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Having your synagogues, homes, and businesses get burned down is tolerable? Wow, ignorance fought. Not that Europe was any better, mind you. Hmmm. I seem to have annoyed you and prompted a snarky response by posting something I thought was uncontroversial. That makes me think I expressed myself poorly. I’ll try again. The fact that, during most of their common history, Jews and Muslims have lived alongside each other tolerably well, I adduce as evidence that difference of religion does not necessarily give rise to conflict. To answer your question, I do not include periods where one group was being attacked and having their homes and property destroyed in my definition of living alongside one another tolerably well. I would have thought that goes without saying, but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/25 "2012-05-04T07:12:27Z")
I see that brazil84 is again pretending that there is no such thing as the Arab Peace Initiative, which offered normalized relations with Israel if it would go back to the 1967 borders, allow a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, and negotiate in good faith over the problem of refugees. If you think that is not conceding much, and if you think it was totally unreasonable of the Arabs to reject the original “generous” UN division in 1948, just ask yourself how reasonable Americans would be if the UN, with infinitely more justification, decided to give a third of the US back to the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/26 "2012-05-04T09:57:33Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I see that brazil84 is again pretending that there is no such thing as the Arab Peace Initiative, Nonsense. > [@](#): > > and negotiate in good faith over the problem of refugees. A proposal which leaves this issue open is not a serious proposal. Since you like analogies so much, here’s a proposal for you: You move out of your house; sign over the deed to me; and I will move in. Then we will negotiate in good faith over how much I should pay you. (Of course for years I have announced that I will never pay you a dime, but why should that matter? After all, I’ve given my solemn promise to negotiate in good faith.) > [@](#): > > If you think that is not conceding much, and if you think it was totally unreasonable of the Arabs to reject the original “generous” UN division in 1948, The issue was not what’s reasonable, the issue is which side – if any – has been willing or unwilling to compromise. Clearly the Jews in Israel have been willing to compromise while the Arabs have not. Whether the Arab intransigence is reasonable or not is a different issue. Here’s a question for you:What significant concessions should the Arabs be willing to make in order to get peace with Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/27 "2012-05-04T16:53:48Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Talking about this subject with other people and I feel like a bit of my ignorance is making me go in circles here. To me, as little as I understand it, the base of the disagreement seems to fall back into the differing religions of the groups involved. > > Some argue that there are land claims but those seem to end up being based on the religious reasons of those who are claiming the land. > > So, what am I missing and if it’s not religion based, what is the crux of the issue? > /Extra credit: I’d love to read a non-biased book about the whole thing. > //Extra-extra credit: It’s available in Kindle format. My impression is that religious symbolism is part of the reason Israel was formed in the middle east rather than South America or carved out of some piece of Germany/Austria. IIRC folks might not have thought that a Jewish homeland in Brazil would have been as compelling or had as much of a draw as one in Palestine. The historic Jewish ties to the land are more symbolic than real, its pretty hard to say that a latent Jewish state persists on that land after thousands of years since the last Jewish state but there is some powerful symbolism there. Right now, I don’t think the it is religion in the theological sense that is driving things in the middle east so much as it is tribalism. The only thing that would make the Israel situation messier would be if they discovered oil off Israel’s shore. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/28 "2012-05-04T19:41:38Z")
What I have never understood-Egypt’s meddling with the Palestinian-Israeli mess. Egypt has its own problems (massive unemployment, falling standard of living, overpopulation, zero foreign investment). So why do they get involved in this? They got the Sinai back from Israel, and they (never) wanted to govern the Gaza Strip. How many lives have they lost in war with Israel-for what? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/29 "2012-05-04T19:50:35Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What I have never understood-Egypt’s meddling with the Palestinian-Israeli mess. Probably it would help to understand if you re-frame the way you perceive the conflict. It’s better to think of it as the “Arab-Israeli conflict,” not the “Palestinian-Israeli conflict.” See, the group known as “Palestinians” are a recent invention for purposes of undermining Israel. There was never a country called “Palestine,” there was never a “Palestinian” language; or a “Palestinian” currency; or any kind of separate “Palestinian” religion or culture. The group known as “Palestinians” are actually Arabs. Linguistically, culturally, religiously, and ethnically they are essentially the same as the Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/30 "2012-05-05T00:02:36Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > See, the group known as “Palestinians” are a recent invention for purposes of undermining Israel. There was never a country called “Palestine,” there was never a “Palestinian” language; or a “Palestinian” currency; or any kind of separate “Palestinian” religion or culture. [Unoriginal horseshit.](http://zionops.wordpress.com/free-palestine/) Up until the 19th century, you could say the same about Italy or Germany. The fact that powerful empires, eastern and western, kept the Palestinians from forming their own nation has nothing to do with them being a fabrication to undermine Israel. ---
**Author:** ![OldnCrinkly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OldnCrinkly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldnCrinkly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/31 "2012-05-05T00:58:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > There was never a country called “Palestine,” there was never a “Palestinian” language; or a “Palestinian” currency; or any kind of separate “Palestinian” religion or culture. > > The group known as “Palestinians” are actually Arabs. Linguistically, culturally, religiously, and ethnically they are essentially the same as the Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Well, I’m no expert on Israel/Palestine, but this statement is not really accurate. It may be that there were not any clear borders or legally separate entities that were internationally recognized in the Middle East in prior times. However, people in different areas did, and still do have differences culturally, linguistically, and religiously. If, for example, you were to take a group of Egyptian people, add say, one Lebanese guy, how ling do you think it would be before any one noticed he was different? I think not very long. Similarly, you could take a group of people from say, Texas, add one New Yorker, people are likely to notice he is different. They wouldn’t be completely foreign, of course, and would have more similarities that differences maybe even. But I do believe the differences between people in Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon may likely be wider that between two Americans. Palestinians, or whoever it was living on the land bordering the Mediterranean’s eastern shore, would have had their own differences as well. I mean, Canada and the U.S. are similar but that doesn’t mean that those “so-called Canadians” are really Americans. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/32 "2012-05-05T06:14:53Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > [Unoriginal horseshit.](http://zionops.wordpress.com/free-palestine/) Up until the 19th century, you could say the same about Italy or Germany. Have any German leaders said anything remotely analogous to the following: > [@](#): > > The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing **our struggle** against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism. > > For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. (my bolding) > [@](#): > > The fact that powerful empires, eastern and western, kept the Palestinians from forming their own nation has nothing to do with them being a fabrication to undermine Israel. In your view, when did the “Palestinians” first seriously attempt to form their own nation? And what are these “powerful empires” you refer to? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/33 "2012-05-05T06:30:53Z")
> [@OldnCrinkly](#): > > However, people in different areas did, and still do have differences culturally, linguistically, and religiously. What are the main cultural, linguistic, and religious differences among (1) Arabic speaking people in Lebanon; (2) Arabic speaking people in Jordan; (3) Arabic speaking people in Egypt; and (4) “Palestinians”? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/34 "2012-05-05T13:47:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Have any German leaders said anything remotely analogous to the following: For some reason, you didn’t identify the very famous Palestinian leader who said that. I had to google it to learn that it was someone named Zahir Muhsein, who apparently was a member of the PLO executive committee. Big whoop. So his words are analogous to Congressman Allen West “admitting” that there are 80 members of the Communist Party currently serving in the House of Representatives. > [@](#): > > In your view, when did the “Palestinians” first seriously attempt to form their own nation? I don’t know; I’m not a historian. But since they were dominated by powerful empires, they had no realistic chance to do so until after WW II. Kind of like India, which I suppose you also think is a fake nation, since there is no “Indian” language. > [@](#): > > And what are these “powerful empires” you refer to? Um, the Ottoman and British, to name the last two? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/35 "2012-05-05T13:49:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What are the main cultural, linguistic, and religious differences among (1) Arabic speaking people in Lebanon; (2) Arabic speaking people in Jordan; (3) Arabic speaking people in Egypt; and (4) “Palestinians”? What are the main cultural, linguistic, and religious differences between Americans and Canadians? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/36 "2012-05-05T13:58:19Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > For some reason, you didn’t identify the very famous Palestinian leader who said that. I had to google it to learn that it was someone named Zahir Muhsein, who apparently was a member of the PLO executive committee. Big whoop. So his words are analogous to Congressman Allen West “admitting” that there are 80 members of the Communist Party currently serving in the House of Representatives. I take it your answer is “no”? > [@](#): > > But since they were dominated by powerful empires, they had no realistic chance to do so until after WW II. It’s not a matter of whether they had a chance to do so so much as whether they had any interest in doing so. Do you agree that between 1948 and 1967, there was no Jewish control whatsoever over the West Bank and Gaza, and that in fact these areas had been successfully ethnically cleansed of Jews? And do you agree that during this 20-year time period, there was no serious attempt by the “Palestinians” to establish a “Palestinian State” in this area? If so, then why do you think it is that there was not such an attempt? > [@](#): > > Um, the Ottoman and British, to name the last two? Please show me proof that there was a serious movement to set up a “Palestinian State” which was suppressed by the Ottoman empire. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/37 "2012-05-05T13:59:35Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > What are the main cultural, linguistic, and religious differences between Americans and Canadians? First you answer my question, then I will try to answer yours. ---
**Author:** ![OldnCrinkly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OldnCrinkly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldnCrinkly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/38 "2012-05-05T15:58:45Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What are the main cultural, linguistic, and religious differences among (1) Arabic speaking people in Lebanon; (2) Arabic speaking people in Jordan; (3) Arabic speaking people in Egypt; and (4) “Palestinians”? Well the fact that they do not identify themselves as all being just generically “Arab”, as you do, does imply that there are differences. You may choose to disregard that, but it remains a fact. Your assertion that they are all the same is foolishness. As far as your identifying them all as Arabic speaking thats just more foolishness. The languages, or dialects, are different. I will give you an analogy, Jamaicans speak English. However, if you are not familiar with the Jamaican patois, you are likely to have significant difficulty in understanding a conversation between two Jamaicans. It is similar to different Arabic dialects. If you regularly hear someone speaking a particular dialect, you would also, without necessarily understanding the language, be able to recognize that it sounds different than other dialects. I don’t think you are willing to acknowledge any differences, so I will not try to argue with you. I maintain that there are, factually, differences. As far as your Palestinian leader’s quote, I think you would agree that he seems to have some bias and agenda, so, I’ll not take his words at face value either. Good luck, and keep up the good fight against ignorance! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/39 "2012-05-05T16:55:33Z")
> [@OldnCrinkly](#): > > Well the fact that they do not identify themselves as all being just generically “Arab”, as you do, does imply that there are differences. Sure, and if I refer to myself as “His Royal Highness of France,” it implies that I am the King of France. But it doesn’t make me the King of France. > [@](#): > > Your assertion that they are all the same is foolishness. Then show me proof. > [@](#): > > It is similar to different Arabic dialects. Is it your position that there is a “Palestinian” dialect, generally spoken by Arabs in Gaza, Israel proper, and the West Bank, which is both distinct and noticeably different from the Arabic spoken in Jordan and Egypt? > [@](#): > > I don’t think you are willing to acknowledge any differences, Of course I am, if you actually supply solid evidence that these differences exist. Simply asserting that my position is “foolishness” does not count as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![OldnCrinkly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OldnCrinkly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldnCrinkly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757/40 "2012-05-05T17:33:54Z")
Yes indeed, there are different dialects in Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine. Just because **you** can not notice the difference does not mean it is not there. I can’t tell the difference between someone speaking Spanish who is from Spain and a Cuban speaking Spanish, but I assure you they can tell the difference. Can you tell the difference between people speaking, say Russian and Ukrainian? Not sure how to prove that to you, I guess it would require some level of familiarity with the language, as opposed to ignorance of the subject. But it is true. As for your being the King of France, I think a much less silly, or foolish, example would be along the lines of someone saying, I’m a Southern Belle, or I’m a UP’er, or I’m a Yankee. Laying claim to some royal title is not the same as claiming to identify with a particular culture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-the-main-reason-for-the-israel-palestine-conflict/620757.md?page=3)