# Is \[Religious\] self-Deceit is a form of intelligence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618 "2011-09-17T14:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618/101 "2011-10-05T15:14:59Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Words. Spoken, written – contracts, intelligence, records, communications of all sorts. In the situation of the crash into the Empire State Building, the pilot communicated that he couldn’t see for the fog and that he wasn’t sure where he was. Naturally, we can assume that it was an understandable and sad accident. Unlike the 9-11 terrorists, he had not communicated a desire to fly a plane into a NYC skyscraper beforehand for the purpose of killing people. I used this pilot as an example of why we cannot make assumptions about evil motives from the act itself. (Now by the second plane, we knew it was not coincidence and that we were under attack, but we weren’t absolutely certain of the motive. There was probably a lot of accurate speculation because of the bombing in February of 1993.) Of course you can always speculate about someone’s motive, _but you can’t know for sure;_ you can’t be the authority on what is inside someone else’s head until he or she communicates it. Well speaking for myself, aren’t those all actions? You tell someone your intent - action You make a video to be released before/after your act - action You write down your intent - action > [@Zoe](#): > > Yes, I answered. The answers were in that long resume. I didn’t choose just one flavor. And at least two of the denominations that I have belonged to do have some belief in hell. No you haven’t. You weren’t asked why you attended the churches you did. You were asked why _you personally_ favour an interpretation of Christianity that doesn’t involve helfire etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618/102 "2011-10-05T16:05:57Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Incidentally, there is no archaeological or contemporary literary evidence whatsoever that suggests this interpretation. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I see that wikipedia at least supports your contention: the municipal dump interpretation apparently dates from a c. 1200 rabbi. [Tophet - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topheth) The Wikipedia article is a bit unclear, but it I suspect that it is saying that the association of Topheth with Gehinnon dates to 1200 and not that there was never a valley of Hinnon that was a smoldering trash heap to which Jeremiah and later writers alluded. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618/103 "2011-10-06T08:30:18Z")
This is from the Bible Dictionary and Concordance via [answers.com](http://answers.com): > [@](#): > > Valley of Hinnom > > A valley on the border between the territories of Benjamin and Judah (Josh 15:8; 18:6), it lies to the south and southwest of Jerusalem and is a tributary of the Kidron Valley. Also known as Ge-Hinnom, the valley later became synonymous with hell (See GEHENNA). It served as Jerusalem’s main cemetery in biblical times, _as is confirmed by recent archeological research_ (see ACELDAMA). > > Read more: [Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions](http://www.answers.com/topic/valley-of-hinnom#ixzz1ZzK6R4wE) Emphasis added. Absence of substantiation acknowledged. Ok, so it’s a cemetery where the worm forever turns, rather than a garbage dump if we believe the cite. I disavow knowledge of this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618/104 "2011-10-17T01:31:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I believe the purpose of religions when first started many thousands of years ago was a way to help people get along with each other and a means to help society; somewhere along the way it became political and was used to control people through fear or guilt. > > Like any tool religion can be, and is used for good or for evil, an excuse to get others to follow. As an example Josuah used religion to kill a lot of people so they could take the land. I do not see how any loving parent could let one child( or family) kill another or favor one child over another. Humans can be lovable or hateful,usually for selfish reasons. > Why would a good loving parent have a child just so the child could love it back? To me that isn’t love but a selfish reason. > > Since God is said to be unknowable no one can say they know anything about God…they can make suppositions and that is all, it is not necessarily factual. I agree, religion can be both good and bad. > [@k8see](#): > > Belief is a personal matter. If it allows people to live better lives, to be happy, to have hope, how does it impact you in anyway? Other than, somebody who believes is likely to be happier and more satisfied with their lives, than you? > > Belief requires faith, not proof. If you cannot see it, that is something you must deal with, or not, depending on the quality of your life. Zealots are freaks, but faith is not zealotry, unless you try to force your beliefs on another. Yep, I believe. No it’s not far-fetched. And, yes, I am a lot more peaceful than you, and probably happier too, but that’s your choice. You’re “free-will”… Yes, it’s how it affects others which matters. Someone with strong inner faith might contribute to their community and collegues with passion and drive, but they’ll start to get annoying if they don’t respect that you might make other choices. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In other words; if some adult of normal intelligence genuinely believed in Santa Claus and his yearly gift giving wouldn’t you think he was deceiving himself? This is a bad example, as it is falsifiable without dieing. **SantaClausism**. Request= Be nice. Reward: Presents. Time of Reward: December, when you are alive to report if it is true or falst. **Christianity/Islam** Request: Obey. Reward: Eternal Paradise. Time of Reward: After death, when you are unable to report if it is true or false. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religious-self-deceit-is-a-form-of-intelligence/596618.md?page=5)