# Is removing a door from its hinges cruel and unusual punnishement for a teenager? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089 "2010-05-11T19:48:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/81 "2010-05-15T03:45:09Z")
I agree with those who are saying that people in this thread are being a little scary with the authoritarian thing. Taking the door of the hinges was justified in this case, but not because kids are chattel. ---
**Author:** ![aerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9a140/32.png) [@aerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerie)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/82 "2010-05-15T06:58:36Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Well, it’s not the teen’s room anyway. It’s a room in my house where I let my teenager sleep. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > The only “Rights” a kid has is that they’re properly fed, housed, and educated. This is extremely ignorant, arrogant, and reduces children to property or worse, chattel. It’s the kind of “_because I said so_” parent who enjoys asserting their authority over someone ‘inferior’ to them. It’s bullying type behavior and shows a serious lack of emotional immaturity. They demand respect but refuse to give any. It fosters resentment in a kid that can last throughout his/her life. Not to mention how ineffective it is at raising a mentally healthy young person. And I don’t understand why you need to punish a child for slamming the door. A child has a right to express their emotions in a reasonable manner. It’s not a show of disrespect or defiance. And the “damage my property” excuse is laughable. It’s just another authoritarian behavior where the parent needs to be dictator. I have no respect for this type of arrogant, morally superior behavior and I feel for the child who has to live this way. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/83 "2010-05-15T07:53:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it’s a shame that many posters don’t believe that showing your child respect will engender more of the same. Go back and read the whole thread. The child has refused to respect the wishes of the parent, specifically, the child persists in smoking an illegal substance in the parent’s house, against the parent’s wishes and rules. The child has RELINQUISHED any claim to respect that he might have previously had. ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/84 "2010-05-15T12:09:02Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > And I don’t understand why you need to punish a child for slamming the door. A child has a right to express their emotions in a reasonable manner. It’s not a show of disrespect or defiance. And the “damage my property” excuse is laughable. It’s just another authoritarian behavior where the parent needs to be dictator. Tell it to my sister. Her son slammed the door and punched the door and generally abused the door so badly that it actually fell apart and all that was really left was the hinges. He sure was defiant and disrespectful and he certainly damaged her property, which she could not at that time afford to replace. He was allowed to hang an old sheet over the doorway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/85 "2010-05-15T15:21:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Go back and read the whole thread. The child has refused to respect the wishes of the parent, specifically, the child persists in smoking an illegal substance in the parent’s house, against the parent’s wishes and rules. The child has RELINQUISHED any claim to respect that he might have previously had. And what the parent did in the OP was the right thing in my opinion. It was justified in that case. But some parents need to stop and ask themselves if they’re doing something harsh because it’s what best for their child or if they’re doing it because they want to show the kid who’s the boss. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/86 "2010-05-16T05:37:13Z")
In almost all cases, parents DO need to show the child who is boss as part of the discipline. The two parts cannot be separated. The child DOES need to know that the parent is the boss, until the child is no longer a child. Look, I had parents who were very much too strict with me. I know what it feels like (basically, I was grounded until I was about 16 and a half, with a very few instances when I was allowed to be anywhere other than home, school, or church). But parents really do need for kids to obey them in just about any circumstance, with a minimum of fuss, backtalk, and excuses. Kids don’t have the judgment, yet, for making proper decisions. That’s what parents are FOR. And kids need the stability of knowing that their parents are looking out for their best interests. Some parents are too authoritarian, it’s true. But most parents aren’t. And I say this as someone who DID have very authoritarian parents, and as someone who has been a parent herself. Part of being a parent is slowly and carefully allowing your child to become more independent, without giving the child so much independence that s/he gets into serious trouble. It’s a balancing act. And taking a door from a bedroom is an excellent discipline tool, to get a child’s attention without really harming him or her. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/87 "2010-05-17T13:27:32Z")
Re: It’s not the teen’s room. I don’t say such things as a taunt, but as a statement of fact. I have never had to take a door off its hinges, and if I did, I would do it for a short time to make a point. I am a very loving and loved parent, but sometimes teenagers need to be reminded that I’m not just the lady who does their laundry and dishes. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/88 "2010-05-17T13:55:50Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > This is extremely ignorant, arrogant, and reduces children to property or worse, chattel. It’s the kind of “_because I said so_” parent who enjoys asserting their authority over someone ‘inferior’ to them. It’s bullying type behavior and shows a serious lack of emotional immaturity. They demand respect but refuse to give any. It fosters resentment in a kid that can last throughout his/her life. > Not to mention how ineffective it is at raising a mentally healthy young person. Blahblahblah my parents were mean to me. Bored now. > [@aerie](#): > > And I don’t understand why you need to punish a child for slamming the door. A child has a right to express their emotions in a reasonable manner. It’s not a show of disrespect or defiance. And the “damage my property” excuse is laughable. It’s just another authoritarian behavior where the parent needs to be dictator. Slamming your door isn’t reasonable. And how laughable would it be if your parents broke \*your \*stuff in a fit of pique? > [@aerie](#): > > I have no respect for this type of arrogant, morally superior behavior and I feel for the child who has to live this way. I have no respect for non-parents who tell me I don’t love my kid just because I don’t let her shit all over me. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/89 "2010-05-17T14:32:28Z")
> [@Lama\_Pacos](#): > > I think it’s a shame that many posters don’t believe that showing your child respect will engender more of the same. I think the father mentioned in the OP showed lots of respect by talking to the kid first. The lack of respect is the kid’s, not the dad’s. I show my kids respect, but yes, I’ll be annoying (and really, that’s all this is - annoying. It’s not dangerous in any way.) if that will remind them to respect me, as well. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But some parents need to stop and ask themselves if they’re doing something harsh because it’s what best for their child or if they’re doing it because they want to show the kid who’s the boss. I think (from other interactions in other parenting threads) most of the harshest statements here are philosophy, not applied policy. It’s the internet thing - everyone’s a badass online. In real life, “My house, my rules” may indeed be true, and a good mission statement, but the making, application and enforcement of those rules is generally fluid and full of compromises the kid may not even see. I know I’ve told my son that while I’m legally responsible for him, I reserve the right to check his email, go through his drawers and read anything “hidden” in his room…but in reality, I haven’t looked at a thing in probably 10 years (he’s 17 now), because I do respect his autonomy. Only if he starts demonstrating a lack of good judgement or responsibility for himself will I exercise that right…but hell yeah, I still claim that right! If I post, “I’m legally responsible for him and I’ll exercise my parental right to go through his stuff any time I want!” it’s _true_, but I come off looking like a hard nosed authoritarian. In reality, I’m a very forgiving, authoritative parent, and there’s a difference. [Parenting styles - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/90 "2010-05-17T14:39:37Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > This is extremely ignorant, arrogant, and reduces children to property or worse, chattel. It’s the kind of “_because I said so_” parent who enjoys asserting their authority over someone ‘inferior’ to them. It’s bullying type behavior and shows a serious lack of emotional immaturity. They demand respect but refuse to give any. It fosters resentment in a kid that can last throughout his/her life. > Not to mention how ineffective it is at raising a mentally healthy young person. > > And I don’t understand why you need to punish a child for slamming the door. A child has a right to express their emotions in a reasonable manner. It’s not a show of disrespect or defiance. And the “damage my property” excuse is laughable. It’s just another authoritarian behavior where the parent needs to be dictator. > > I have no respect for this type of arrogant, morally superior behavior and I feel for the child who has to live this way. How do you keep your clothes clean with all the little footprints on your back? Limits have to be set because a child will go exactly as far in their behavior as they’re allowed. A child has a right to express themselves? Well, no they don’t. Not really. What they REALLY don’t have a right to do is be a dick by slamming doors or other innapropriate behavior. And if you don’t prevent them from acting that way at home, how can you prevent them from acting like dicks out in public or as adults? Would it be OK for me to slam the door of my office when my boss makes me mad? NO. I know this because my parents punished my for slamming doors at home. Did this foster resentment in me for life? No. Only until I stopped being childish. Thos of us who have grown up realized that parents are correct for punishing us for bad behavior. I don’t see how you CAN’T punish a child for slamming a door. It’s a complete failure as a parent to simply let them act that way unchecked. A child who isn’t brought up to understand how to get along is in for a lot of trouble as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![aerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9a140/32.png) [@aerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerie)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/91 "2010-05-17T17:32:32Z")
Of course I do not condone property damage. Slamming a door and destroying a door are two different behaviors. Giving them permission to\* safely \*express emotions at home keeps them from expressing and acting out those emotions against society, school, work, etc. @DianaG: The fact that you raised a child that _would_ shit all over you in the first place is a reason to examine your parenting philosophy. Treating a child with respectful discipline must begin early in life. Demanding blind obedience from a toddler does not foster reasoning skills or their ability to make informed choices, but rather fear of his parents. Then it’s way too late to expect those things from a teenager who has never had his feelings, thoughts, or opinions valued by his parents. I would say that parental disrespect and destructive behavior is the natural result of such tyrannical parenting. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/92 "2010-05-17T17:42:09Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > @DianaG: The fact that you raised a child that _would_ shit all over you in the first place is a reason to examine your parenting philosophy. Actually, I didn’t. That’s because I taught her that while her feelings matter, hers aren’t the ONLY feelings that matter. My feelings matter too, and since it IS my house, her feeling that she wants to slam the door does NOT trump my feeling that I don’t want my door slammed. I’m guessing that you don’t have kids. In fact, I’m guessing that you’re scantly, if at all, removed from being a kid. Because ‘respecting your feelings’ is not the same thing as ‘letting you do whatever you want’. Someday you’ll understand. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/93 "2010-05-17T18:40:28Z")
Would appear to me that **aerie** ’s feelings are still hurt about her parents not treating her like the adult she insisted she was while still living in their home. Seriously, the absolute worst part about not having a door on your room is you have to wank stealthily. I never minded my parents insisting that my door remain open until I got to be that magical age when all I wanted to do was touch my girly parts. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/94 "2010-05-17T18:44:26Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > Treating a child with respectful discipline must begin early in life. Demanding blind obedience from a toddler does not foster reasoning skills or their ability to make informed choices, but rather fear of his parents. Then it’s way too late to expect those things from a teenager who has never had his feelings, thoughts, or opinions valued by his parents. I would say that parental disrespect and destructive behavior is the natural result of such tyrannical parenting. Do you mind giving clear examples of what you consider “tyrannical parenting?” Everyone in this thread is talking about the example in the OP, is that what you consider tyrannical? From your posts it’s hard to determine whether you’re against the behavior in the OP or just the responses of the two posters you quoted earlier. Maybe Hypno-Toad’s post was a little over the line, but I wouldn’t assume that it is his entire parenting philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/95 "2010-05-17T19:10:43Z")
I agree with **Lynn Bodoni**. Sometimes the parent shouldn’t need to give explanation for why a certain rule exists. A parent does have authority, especially over a minor child. There’s no reason a parent shouldn’t give their kid privacy until the kid abuses the privilege. Just like being able to drive, or stay up late, or get an allowance, or have a cell phone, these things are all privileges. The kid needs to be made to understand that privileges can be ‘un-earned’ and the parents should be strict in enforcing this. There are obviously situations where it becomes abuse, and that’s only if the parent doesn’t allow the kids access to basic needs - nutritious food, a place to sleep, affection. Yes I think affection is a basic need and if my hypothetical kid came to me with a problem, even a really bad one, the first thing I would be is accepting and caring, if firm. Or if they apply these standards capriciously - “oh, you got a B+ instead of an A? I’m going to remove the door from your room.” No there’s no strict line in some cases but parents should be able to use common sense. (And before you say I am just old and cranky, I’m a college freshman, not a parent. I have however babysat kids whose homes did not have nearly enough rules, and it was impossible to discipline them on the basis of ‘because your parents have made this rule and they have given me authority to enforce rules’. If mom and dad say you need to go to bed at bedtime they shouldn’t have to give you online citations showing that 8.5 hours of sleep or whatever is necessary. You should just go to bed. Bring a book if you can’t fall asleep.) ---
**Author:** ![cuberdon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@cuberdon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuberdon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/96 "2010-05-17T19:50:02Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > I have no respect for this type of arrogant, morally superior behavior and I feel for the child who has to live this way. Out of curiosity, how many children do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/97 "2010-05-17T20:44:54Z")
> [@LouiseE](#): > > Out of curiosity, how many children do you have? I’m guessing none, not old enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/98 "2010-05-17T22:38:54Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] I have no respect for non-parents who tell me I don’t love my kid just because I don’t let her shit all over me. [/QUOTE] It’s rather irrelevant who here has a kid and who doesn’t. There are just as many bad parents out there as good ones. The fact that you popped a baby out proves that you have a working uterus and figured out how to have sex; congrats on that, I guess, but it doesn’t qualify you more than anyone else to make judgments on which fashions of child-rearing are more or less moral. I’ve never been an i-banker but I’m pretty sure I can determine that corporate theft is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/99 "2010-05-18T03:44:39Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > Of course I do not condone property damage. Slamming a door and destroying a door are two different behaviors. Slamming a door CAN destroy it. I found that out the hard way when I was about, oh, 12 or 13? ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089/100 "2010-05-18T05:17:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Slamming a door CAN destroy it. I found that out the hard way when I was about, oh, 12 or 13? Not to mention if you live in a flat or apartments it is a noise nuisance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-removing-a-door-from-its-hinges-cruel-and-unusual-punnishement-for-a-teenager/539089.md?page=6)