# Is Rob Portman still a dick? (GOP Sen, reverses stance on gay marriage) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009 "2013-03-15T15:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/61 "2013-03-15T22:30:16Z")
[And here come the GOP responses](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/15/mixed-gop-reaction-to-portmans-gay-marriage-shift/?wprss=rss_politics). Here is the craziest one I’ve seen so far: > [@](#): > > …Andrea Lafferty, the head of the conservative Christian group Traditional Values Coalition, likened the influence of Portman’s son on the senator’s decision to support gay marriage to someone accepting drunk driving after learning their child was a drunk driver. > “I wish no harm to either Senator Portman or his son but they are wrong,” said Lafferty. … ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/62 "2013-03-15T23:40:14Z")
He’s pretty damn late coming around to this view, but I’m a constituent and want to encourage him, so I just sent him this email via his Senate website: \*Thank you for telling the country about your belief that all people, regardless of sexual orientation, should be treated equally under the law. I know it’s not easy for a conservative Republican to do so, and I commend you for stepping forward to share your family’s story. Please do all you can to see that your views are now enacted into Federal legislation as to marriage, taxes, access to healthcare, etc. Best wishes.\* ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/63 "2013-03-16T00:02:17Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > He’s pretty damn late coming around to this view, but I’m a constituent and want to encourage him, so I just sent him this email via his Senate website: > > \*Thank you for telling the country about your belief that all people, regardless of sexual orientation, should be treated equally under the law. I know it’s not easy for a conservative Republican to do so, and I commend you for stepping forward to share your family’s story. Please do all you can to see that your views are now enacted into Federal legislation as to marriage, taxes, access to healthcare, etc. > > Best wishes.\* That is _so_ much nicer than the one I was drafting, which begins with, “About time, you fucking idiot. …” I think yours would be more encouraging than mine. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/64 "2013-03-16T00:31:32Z")
A good (and short) commentary from someone echoing arguments put out by **TriPolar** and others: he’s still kind of a dick if he doesn’t take this opportunity to think about other things he should maybe be more compassionate about even though he hasn’t personally experienced them. > **[Rob Portman and the Politics of Narcissism](https://slate.com/business/2013/03/rob-portman-and-the-politics-of-narcissism.html)** > > I'm glad that Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio has reconsidered his view on gay marriage upon realization that his son is gay, but I also find this particular... > [@](#): > > Rob Portman doesn’t have a son with a pre-existing medical condition who’s locked out of the health insurance market… So Rob Portman doesn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/65 "2013-03-16T00:36:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > From [his op-ed](http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2013/03/15/gay-couples-also-deserve-chance-to-get-married.html): > I guess the phrase “no establishment of religion” didn’t ring a bell with him. Eh. His bell just rang a short while after our Constitutional Scholar in Chief’s bell rang, so I find it hard to fault him on the establishment clause. Although Obama didn’t have a gay relative to nudge him along, he did say that knowing gay people was part of how he “evolved” to support SSM. I’m not seeing a lot of daylight between those two paths to the correct position on this issue. It’s not all that uncommon for people to come around on issues once they hit home. So, I say good for Portman, and I don’t give much of a fuck about how he got to where he is. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/66 "2013-03-16T00:41:03Z")
I want him to take the lesson so few republicans ever take from such a revelation: maybe the entire way he forms his policial philosophy is as screwed up as this one was. They never go there. It’s always, “I was right about everything before, except this, and I’m still right about everything now.” He even claims that being pro-gay marriage is in keeping with his conservative family values. Now, of course. Last year, it was in violation of those same values. What? IOW, he didn’t learn shit and he’s not going to. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/67 "2013-03-16T00:48:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Or if Anthony Kennedy has a gay kid or grandkid. That’s sort of what didn’t happen with Lewis Powell. Powell was the fifth vote on Bowers v Hardwick, which was the case that found sodomy laws constitutional. After the term ended, one of his clerks came out to him. He had said later that if he had known the clerk was gay, he wouldn’t have voted that way on the case. I think it’s not a Republican/Democratic thing, or a liberal/conservative thing. It’s that until an issue affects you personally, or somebody you care about, you think about the issue abstractly. You compare it to your view of the world, your values, whatever, but you don’t have an emotional connection to it. Then when you’re faced with something yourself, the logical part of you gets overlaid with your emotional reaction. “Gay people” aren’t just some undifferentiated mass. They’re actual people. They’re your son or daughter, your sister or brother, your friend, and it forces you to look at the situation differently. And that’s where he is. That’s where a lot of parents and friends of lesbians and gays are. Gay rights was something they never really thought about until somebody they loved came out and they were forced to think about it. I’m proud of Portman here, actually, even though I’m not a fan of him politically. And I think a lot of you are being way too hard on the man. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/68 "2013-03-16T01:02:02Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If only every anti-gay conservative can have gay relatives Statistically speaking its almost a certainty they do. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/69 "2013-03-16T02:01:59Z")
Obviously, our gay and lesbian Dopers need to get out there and start seducing the sons and daughters of our nations Congress-folk. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/70 "2013-03-16T02:41:41Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Obviously, our gay and lesbian Dopers need to get out there and start seducing the sons and daughters of our nations Congress-folk. Plus, there’s that toaster over for every conquest! Or is that too 90s? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/71 "2013-03-16T11:50:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I say good for Portman, and I don’t give much of a fuck about how he got to where he is. I do. The path is important, because it determines whether such a change of heart is replicable on other issues. As Yglesias points out (link in **Troutman** ’s post #64): > [@](#): > > The great challenge for a senator isn’t to go to Washington and represent the problems of his own family. It’s to try to obtain the intellectual and moral perspective necessary to represent the problems of the people who _don’t_ have direct access to the corridors of power. > > Senators basically never have poor kids. That’s something members of Congress should think about. Especially members of Congress who know personally that realizing an issue affects their own children changes their thinking. Rich and poor, black and white, we all have a pretty good chance of having a gay relative, co-worker, friend, etc. So this works for gay rights. But a largely rich and powerful group of people isn’t likely to know people who will be genuinely hurt by an increase in the Medicare eligibility age, or have their standard of living reduced by the switch to chained CPI, or whose lives will be noticeably improved by an increase in the minimum wage, which I should point out that every House Republican just voted against. (Bet Portman would have voted the same way.) Democrats and liberals are largely aware, for whatever reasons, of problems that don’t affect them personally. Republicans and conservatives seem to lack this facility. Being conservative increasingly seems to be a personality defect. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/72 "2013-03-16T15:22:52Z")
Just to clarify the situation, I think Chuch Hagel is a dick, but still qualified for his job, and should have been easily confirmed. Portman was a dick on Thursday, and coming out Friday with his newfound compassion because it affected his family didn’t make him less of dick. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/73 "2013-03-16T15:31:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I do. The path is important, because it determines whether such a change of heart is replicable on other issues. > > As Yglesias points out (link in **Troutman** ’s post #64): > > Rich and poor, black and white, we all have a pretty good chance of having a gay relative, co-worker, friend, etc. So this works for gay rights. But a largely rich and powerful group of people isn’t likely to know people who will be genuinely hurt by an increase in the Medicare eligibility age, or have their standard of living reduced by the switch to chained CPI, or whose lives will be noticeably improved by an increase in the minimum wage, which I should point out that every House Republican just voted against. (Bet Portman would have voted the same way.) > > Democrats and liberals are largely aware, for whatever reasons, of problems that don’t affect them personally. Republicans and conservatives seem to lack this facility. Being conservative increasingly seems to be a personality defect. The issue of SSM is entirely different. I know I thought the idea was entirely absurd when it first came up. Governments have been dealing with issues surround poverty for millennia, but it’s only relatively recently that the idea of “gay rights” has hit the national scene. Senators of both parties were slow to address this, and the cause is not served well by demonizing the first Republican Senator who gets it right just because you don’t like the fact that he needed his son to prod him along the way. That is, unless are willing to demonize Obama and both Clintons in the same way. Maybe you are-- I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/74 "2013-03-16T15:42:28Z")
I don’t really care why he had the change of mind. I mean, maybe in a perfect world I would care that this guy is taking cover behind his son instead of just admitting he was wrong. But I’m not going to complain too much over this. Maybe Portman has just opened the floodgates for other senators to make similar transformations. That can only be a good thing. I’m saving my vitriol for smug bastards like Santorum. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/75 "2013-03-16T16:05:58Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m not going to complain too much over this. Neither am I. I’m just not going to credit him with being a more decent human being for it, either. If his son had come out as a cannibal, he’d have announced that eating other humans is not as bad as he’d previously believed, the hypocritical asshole. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/76 "2013-03-16T16:14:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m saving my vitriol for smug bastards like Santorum. I think there are a great many people like him whose minds are, for all intents and purposes, permanently closed on the issue. They are so invested in their religious views on the matter, that nothing would shake them lose. That guy gets a scary number of supporters, but I’m still convinced he would never get the GOP nomination for president, and in the odd chance he did, he’d never win the election. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/77 "2013-03-16T16:48:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The issue of SSM is entirely different. I know I thought the idea was entirely absurd when it first came up. Governments have been dealing with issues surround poverty for millennia, but it’s only relatively recently that the idea of “gay rights” has hit the national scene. Senators of both parties were slow to address this, and the cause is not served well by demonizing the first Republican Senator who gets it right just because you don’t like the fact that he needed his son to prod him along the way. > > That is, unless are willing to demonize Obama and both Clintons in the same way. Maybe you are-- I don’t know. You have clearly understood not a thing I’ve written. Are we even in the same conversation here? I’ve been repeatedly talking about gay rights as one issue among many, rather than the lone issue of importance with respect to this sort of behavior. My point is that when we’re discussing the effectiveness of expanding awareness of the validity of a cause among decision-makers via personal knowledge of affected persons, gay rights is either unique or at best representative of only a very small number of other causes. Policymakers need to be aware of pitfalls in life that people different from them encounter, even if none of those people are in their families or close circles of friends. This failure to do so is what I’m slamming conservatives for. Why should I demonize Obama or Clinton for this? Have they failed this test? I don’t see any evidence of it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/78 "2013-03-16T17:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “It allowed me to think of this issue from a new perspective, and that’s of a Dad who loves his son a lot and wants him to have the same opportunities that his brother and sister would have – to have a relationship like Jane and I have had for over 26 years,” Portman said. This is precisely what it takes for someone to reverse their stance on gay marriage: to think of the issue from a new perspective. For him, it took having a gay son to make him think of the issue from a new perspective. Now if only other people, who don’t necessarily have gay sons, could think of the issue from a new perspective. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/79 "2013-03-16T17:04:16Z")
I have to admit that, over the years, my political thinking has turned about 180 degrees, because I’m gay. When I think of what my beliefs would be if I weren’t gay, I acknowledge that they’d be somewhat less than “evolved.” Now, you may say that this has been “selfish” of me, to change my politics for personal reasons, but I disagree. Tip O’Neill said that “all politics is local.” I say that “all politics is personal.” A great deal of our personal political beliefs are shaped by personal events. (Oh, and by the way, I still would have supported same-sex-marriage.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009/80 "2013-03-16T17:11:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You have clearly understood not a thing I’ve written. Are we even in the same conversation here? I’ve been repeatedly talking about gay rights as one issue among many, rather than the lone issue of importance with respect to this sort of behavior. You can talk about that, but this thread is about that one particular issue. If you feel the need to demonize Portman despite the fact that he is leading the charge on this issue in the GOP, then I guess that’s your prerogative. For me, I find rewarding good behavior to be more important and more effective than punishing bad behavior. > [@](#): > > My point is that when we’re discussing the effectiveness of expanding awareness of the validity of a cause among decision-makers via personal knowledge of affected persons, gay rights is either unique or at best representative of only a very small number of other causes. > > Policymakers need to be aware of pitfalls in life that people different from them encounter, even if none of those people are in their families or close circles of friends. This failure to do so is what I’m slamming conservatives for. Well, that’s because you think your political positions are objectively correct and that anyone holding different positions is objectively wrong. The “failure” you see is more a matter of differences in policy, and your position is not objectively the correct one. > [@](#): > > Why should I demonize Obama or Clinton for this? Have they failed this test? I don’t see any evidence of it. Speaking on this particular issue, they were late to the game for either one or both of two reasons: Conflict with religious beliefs or political expediency. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rob-portman-still-a-dick-gop-sen-reverses-stance-on-gay-marriage/653009.md?page=5)