# Is Rolling Stone's UVA rape story a hoax? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199 "2014-12-03T03:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/1 "2014-12-03T03:33:46Z")
Two weeks ago Rolling Stone magazine published [this article](http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119) on rape cases at the University of Virginia. It focuses on a woman, “Jackie”, who alleges that at a particular frat party she was taken to a dark room upstairs and brutally gang-raped for hours. The article mentions other rape allegations at the university by other women, but the overwhelming focus is on this one case. The article, by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, has gotten nationwide attention and there’s been a strong response from the UVA administration, including cancelling all events in the fraternity system for the rest of the semester. Seemingly everyone was taking the article at face value. Then yesterday, Reason magazine published this: [Is the UVA Rape Story a Gigantic Hoax](http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/01/is-the-uva-rape-story-a-gigantic-hoax)? Now the floodgates seem to have opened. Simply by searching on Google, I’ve found articles by the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/12/02/rolling-stone-whiffs-in-reporting-on-alleged-rape/), [The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120450/sabrina-rubin-erdelys-uva-gang-rape-reporting-raises-questions), [Slate](http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/12/sabrina_rubin_erdely_uva_why_didn_t_a_rolling_stone_writer_talk_to_the_alleged.html), and many other sources, all taking a skeptical bent towards the allegations. Some of the problems with the story seem straightforward. For instance, Jackie was supposedly knocked through a glass table and both her and the rapists were on the floor that was covered with shattered glass for hours, a detail that strains credulity. The frat boys supposedly called each other nicknames like “Armpit” and “Blanket”, another detail that’s tough to take seriously. There are bigger problems with Erdely’s story. Despite being an experienced, professional journalist, she seems to have committed some major errors: not attempting to contact the accused or allowing them to respond to the allegations, over-reliance on anonymous sources, and so forth. When the Washington Post and Slate asked her about these things, she gave rambling, contradictory non-answers. To me, it seems like there are a lot of other problems with the story as well. Here, for instance, is what supposedly happened when Jackie contacted three of her friends after the event: > [@](#): > > “We have to get her to the hospital,” Randall said. Their other two friends, however, weren’t convinced. “Is that such a good idea?”, she recalls Cindy asking. “Her reputation will be shot for the next four years.” Andy seconded the opinion, adding that since he and Randall planned to rush fraternities, they ought to think this through. First of all, college students don’t talk like this in barely any situation, and certainly not in a highly stressed situation like the one described. I wouldn’t expect students in that situation to speak in grammatically perfect English or to use more old-fashioned phrases than what I normally hear from them. (Or to avoid using profanity.) But beyond that, the very idea that three students would meet a mutual friend who had just been brutally raped and was bleeding badly, and would respond by only caring about reputation and access to future frat parties, is unbelievable. It’s like a parody of terrible behavior by frat boys and sorority girls. And it’s hard not to suspect that’s because it’s either an entirely fictional event, or an exaggerated version of something that did happen. Of course more facts may come to light, and there’s no way to be certain either way at the moment. But certainly there’s a strong case to be made that it’s a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/2 "2014-12-03T05:21:57Z")
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, but the point about how things fit neatly in our biases is pivotal. In reading the initial Rolling Stone article I took everything at face value, but per what some of the journalists are pointing out in your links, the actual mechanics of the rape scenario described are so improbable it’s almost beyond fiction. Even though I believed it when I read it initially in retrospect it would require all the male college students in the room to be a pack of extraordinarily violent, criminally insane sociopaths dedicated to violent gang rape. Possible? Maybe. Probable…maybe not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/3 "2014-12-03T05:31:50Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > First of all, college students don’t talk like this in barely any situation, and certainly not in a highly stressed situation like the one described. I wouldn’t expect students in that situation to speak in grammatically perfect English or to use more old-fashioned phrases than what I normally hear from them. (Or to avoid using profanity.) Well, this is a quote from after the fact–it’s not like the journalist was there. Presumably, someone described what they said, which may not have been as accurate. Plus, this is only a couple sentences. There may have been more, profanity-laden content that they said that they didn’t mention for the article–maybe this made for the best soundbite because it sounded more coherent. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/4 "2014-12-03T05:39:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, this is a quote from after the fact–it’s not like the journalist was there. Presumably, someone described what they said, which may not have been as accurate. Plus, this is only a couple sentences. There may have been more, profanity-laden content that they said that they didn’t mention for the article–maybe this made for the best soundbite because it sounded more coherent. This comment kind of makes me wonder if the article just suffered from being badly written. I agree the story seems orchestrated to provoke maximum outrage and horror, but I can’t help but wonder if that’s the fault of the journalist more than the person making the claim. I kind of feel bad for the school administration. If they consider the Hoax angle they will look soft on rape. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/5 "2014-12-03T05:39:56Z")
I wish the journalist in question had just focused on the general fact that UVA has been shit at handling accusations of rape on campus. That per se is shocking and outrageous. It doesn’t need any embellishing (if that is what she did). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/6 "2014-12-03T05:47:34Z")
I have no idea whether the story is entirely, partially, or not at all true. But the account of the aftermath conversation, > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > First of all, college students don’t talk like this in barely any situation, and certainly not in a highly stressed situation like the one described. I wouldn’t expect students in that situation to speak in grammatically perfect English or to use more old-fashioned phrases than what I normally hear from them. (Or to avoid using profanity.) … And it’s hard not to suspect that’s because it’s either an entirely fictional event, or an exaggerated version of something that did happen. shouldn’t be read as a transcript of actual speech at the time, in any case. These are after-the-fact, paraphrased summaries of what the parties were saying/thinking. Some people with an ear for dialogue and a sense of drama can reconstruct speech from a stress moment like that, accurately or at least realistically. But most probably can’t, and most would also be self-conscious in their portrayal for a writer. So I don’t think the “ring” of the speech here is evidence one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/7 "2014-12-03T05:54:30Z")
I’ve just come across another interesting fact. Apparently the lawyer that Erdely quoted in the article for complaints about the UVA administration, Wendy Murphy, was involved heavily in the case of the Duke Lacrosse players. That was a case of a violent rape accusations that turned out to be totally false, and Murphy told many blatant lies to the court and the media. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/8 "2014-12-03T05:55:33Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I wish the journalist in question had just focused on the general fact that UVA has been shit at handling accusations of rape on campus. That per se is shocking and outrageous. It doesn’t need any embellishing (if that is what she did). The Wash Post has verified “Jackie” exists and is doing an interview with her. It’s going to have to have some hard facts that can be checked or this is going to start coming off as the journalist having been played. Based on Rolling Stone and the journalist’s lack of meaningful responses to questions and circling the wagons with such panicked alacrity it smells like this “fact checking” is going to effectively amount to “We verified this person exists and this is what she told us happened to her”. This does not bode well for the veracity of the article. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/9 "2014-12-03T05:59:14Z")
I read a link to the blog post that started the skepticism a couple days ago in a link in a Pit thread. I had completely bought the entire story, but after reading that blog piece, I came away with the questions like why the accusers weren’t interviewed and how the people were lying in all that glass. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/10 "2014-12-03T06:06:33Z")
I’m not prepared to evaluate the veracity of the claim but it seems clear either way this was shitty journalism. I kind of hope it was a hoax and not a real victim, because if it’s a real victim \*Rolling Stone \*kind of fucked her over big time by not doing due diligence. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/11 "2014-12-03T06:13:56Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, but the point about how things fit neatly in our biases is pivotal. In reading the initial Rolling Stone article I took everything at face value, but per what some of the journalists are pointing out in your links, the actual mechanics of the rape scenario described are so improbable it’s almost beyond fiction. Even though I believed it when I read it initially in retrospect it would require all the male college students in the room to be a pack of extraordinarily violent, criminally insane sociopaths dedicated to violent gang rape. Possible? Maybe. Probable…maybe not so much. There is a thread here about a gang rape that was witnessed by the poster - I was trying to find it (but can’t know) that would read exactly the same way - but I do totally believe the accusation that was made in that thread - Can’t remember who, he was a teacher and was trying to “warn” one of his students about the safety of attending an all male party alone - ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/12 "2014-12-03T06:16:33Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not prepared to evaluate the veracity of the claim but it seems clear either way this was shitty journalism. > > I kind of hope it was a hoax and not a real victim, because if it’s a real victim \*Rolling Stone \*kind of fucked her over big time by not doing due diligence. I’m so with you there. I really hoped that this girl would be able to take her claim to court. The school had hired an attorney to look over their policies and had suspended fraternities and sororities until everyone could discuss the issue. I thought good progress was made on the issues that could help other students in the future. It would be sad for so many people if poor reporting made things worse instead of better for a real victim. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/13 "2014-12-03T06:52:21Z")
The first thing anyone should do is check for a police report on the incident. Students today go thru alot of informational meetings of how to report sexual assaults and given numerous resources so its unlikely that among this students circle of friends nobody made an official report. But then reporters just arent the same anymore. They sit in a cubicle and put out stories without doing any checking. Its too bad the college didnt nip this rumour in the bud right away by doing fact checking. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/14 "2014-12-03T12:08:07Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > There is a thread here about a gang rape that was witnessed by the poster - I was trying to find it (but can’t know) that would read exactly the same way - but I do totally believe the accusation that was made in that thread > > - Can’t remember who, he was a teacher and was trying to “warn” one of his students about the safety of attending an all male party alone - [Sometimes the bad guys win.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4031614&postcount=1) by Master Wang-Ka. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/15 "2014-12-03T13:52:07Z")
_If_ this story blows up in _Rolling Stone_’s face, [history does not suggest](http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/05/13/rolling-stone-re-posts-rfk-jr-story-lauding-chemically-castrating-autism-researchers/) that the magazine will readily retract the story and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/16 "2014-12-03T13:59:02Z")
It’s the bit about all the broken glass that takes this from plausible to being over-the-top in a Satanic ritual abuse way, IMO. Multiple people with severe lacerations bleeding out all over each other in pitch darkness for several hours isn’t something you just walk away from without somebody noticing. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/17 "2014-12-03T14:20:29Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, this is a quote from after the fact–it’s not like the journalist was there. Presumably, someone described what they said, which may not have been as accurate. Plus, this is only a couple sentences. There may have been more, profanity-laden content that they said that they didn’t mention for the article–maybe this made for the best soundbite because it sounded more coherent. That’s a reasonable point, and I agree that the argument based on the quoted language is pretty weak by itself. However the larger point that the response from the three “friends” is utterly unrealistic still seems pretty convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/18 "2014-12-03T15:02:47Z")
You’re all a bunch of apologists. Hatred for women has for thousands of years enabled rapists and you assholes who are doing it, and those defending them, directly and indirectly, lack logic, intelligence, dignity and morals. You’re all venal scum. Woah. I think I had a “channeling” experience. Don’t know where that came from… ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/19 "2014-12-03T15:05:36Z")
From the Slate article linked in the OP: > [@Sabrina Erdely](#): > > given the degree of her trauma, there’s no doubt in my mind that something happened to her that night. What exactly happened I don’t know. I wasn’t in that room. I don’t know. IOW: “What my article described - in extensive detail - was a violent gang rape. What I actually believe happened is ‘something’ that produced trauma.” To say that she needed to do more fact checking is quite an understatement. I’m amazed that _Rolling Stone_ would not insist on this. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199/20 "2014-12-03T15:26:52Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The first thing anyone should do is check for a police report on the incident. Students today go thru alot of informational meetings of how to report sexual assaults and given numerous resources so its unlikely that among this students circle of friends nobody made an official report. A lot of rapes are unreported, for a lot of different reasons. I agree that a police report should be checked for, but the absences of a report does not mean that this was a hoax. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rolling-stones-uva-rape-story-a-hoax/706199.md?page=2)