# Is Romney hiding immorality, criminality, both, or neither? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 9, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740 "2012-07-09T22:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![D-bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@D-bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D-bear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/141 "2012-07-18T03:13:05Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > This whole idea of _retroactive retirement_ is one of the most ridiculous instances of verbal gymnastics that I’ve ever heard. Seriously, the average voter is going to hear that phrase and immediately think, “Retroactive retirement? What the FUCK does that even mean? Bullshit.” Hell, I pay attention to this nonsense far more than most of the electorate and I can’t even fucking square this shit away. Maybe we’ll see him retroactively decline the nomination on or about October 29th… ---
**Author:** ![nogravity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@nogravity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogravity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/142 "2012-07-18T03:31:01Z")
You know, Sarah Palin is waiting in the wings for just this to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/143 "2012-07-18T04:14:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Not really. I was talking about the fact that he’s a Republican. That fact can’t be mitigated. Not even retroactively? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/144 "2012-07-18T15:41:29Z")
maybe he turned himself in during the 2009 amnesty. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/145 "2012-07-18T15:59:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > I think the answer must be ‘yes’ and cannot possibly give a better set of reasons than has Krugman - essentially that Romney’s continued obfuscation and/or nondisclosure is tantamount to admitting his guilt (moral, criminal, or both). I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/146 "2012-07-18T16:16:07Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. Good luck peddling that idea to the electorate. It’s none of our business until you start asking for our votes. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/147 "2012-07-18T16:19:52Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > maybe he turned himself in during the 2009 amnesty. If anyone’s wondering what this means: [From CNN opinion piece by two tax experts:](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/18/opinion/kleinbard-canellos-romney-tax/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7) > [@](#): > > The Swiss bank account raises tax compliance questions, too. > > The account seems to have been closed early in 2010, but was the income in fact reported on earlier tax returns? Did the Romneys timely file the required disclosure forms to the Treasury Department (so-called FBAR reports)? > > The IRS announced in 2009 a partial tax amnesty for unreported foreign bank accounts, in light of the Justice Department’s criminal investigations involving several Swiss banks. To date, some 34,500 Americans have taken advantage of such amnesty programs. Did the Romneys avail themselves of any of these amnesty programs? One hopes that such a suggestion is preposterous, but that is what disclosure is for – to replace speculation with truth-telling to the American people. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/148 "2012-07-18T16:23:28Z")
Romney is not necessarily hiding anything criminal or “immoral”, but more likely legal stuff that is nevertheless embarassing and puts him in a bad light. Like for instance having it come out that some of his [top campaign donors](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-07-16/supplement-industry-romney-fundraising/56282928/1?csp=34news) are from the poorly regulated supplement industry, who are facing the potential for more effective government regulation.\* Of course, the $4.5 million they’ve funneled his way has _nothing_ to do with any quid pro quo. \*Having Romney on board, in addition to Senate allies like Orrin Hatch and Tom Harkin would be quite beneficial in blocking nasty new regulations aimed at showing “nutritional supplements” are safe and effective. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/149 "2012-07-18T16:26:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. He can’t simultaneously argue “it’s none of the public’s business” and “we’ve released more information than we were required to.” Even if he believes deep down in his core that this is nobody’s business, he wants very badly to be president - as any candidate does - and it’s hard to imagine his commitment to that principle outweighs the damage this is is doing to his image. It’s more likely he thinks that there is some stuff in the tax returns that his campaign believes will look really bad, and that they think disclosing those things would be worse than this bad publicity and the attack ads present and future. I doubt he’s done anything flat-out illegal, although it does sound like he gamed the system with regard to his residency, and that might be exactly the problem: it’s not illegal but it probably looks bad for him _and_ it looks bad that it’s legal. They’re trying hard to change the subject, but it’s not working, and this is going to be all over the place in September and October. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/150 "2012-07-18T16:28:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. How quaint. I’m sure similar voices are lighting up the telegraph lines all around the US. You want to have the most powerful job in the world? Then you need to reveal just who is buttering your bread and who stands to gain from your election. You want to campaign on your career in business? Then you need to show us just how you made your money. You want to be in a position to propose changes to the tax code? Then we need to be able to see if you’re acting in your own self interest. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/151 "2012-07-18T16:48:11Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. I think Krugman may also be saying that Romney is concerned that revealing his tax and other financial information may change the debate from “should taxes for high income earners be reduced” to “should loopholes for high earners be closed”. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/152 "2012-07-18T17:41:45Z")
Relevant here, and also further evidence that everything Rmoney says in this election he’s said the opposite in the past: [In 1994, Romney called on Ted Kennedy to release his tax returns to show he had nothing to hide](http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/11/340682/flashback-romney-tax-return/). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/153 "2012-07-18T19:14:35Z")
“FBAR Reports?” Heh. That’s too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/154 "2012-07-18T19:55:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. You can disagree with his politics, but there is no way you can call the man a fool, not without calling 99.99% of the human population fools. Speaking of disagreeing with his politics, I took a class from him at one point and would have characterized him as a moderate conservative at the time. I think Bush changed him. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/155 "2012-07-18T22:21:54Z")
probably just immorality, since in an age (like most others) where the laws are written by immoral men for their own benefit and the benefit of them that brought them it’s not particularly hard to do immoral things while following the letter of the law. I’m sure the guy has done plenty of illegal things as anyone making that kind of money inevitably has done. But were talking corporate crime, the kind of crimes that don’t get prosecuted. You know, union suppression, price fixing, insider trading, industrial espionage, epa violations, fraud, failure to alert the public of imminent harm from products and practices you are responsible for ect. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/156 "2012-07-19T01:11:19Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > If that wasn’t true, there would be no such thing as trade. Voluntary trade is usually defined as the mutual exchange of two things of equal value. The exchange value remains the same during the trade (barring extraneous variables), but an item’s use value changes depending on it’s possessor. As I suspected, you’re ignorant of the subjunctive. > [@greenslime1951](#): > > As a matter of fact, two people can simultaneously own and operate the same yacht. Or airplane. Or bicycle. Whence private property? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/157 "2012-07-19T02:20:50Z")
This has probably been mentioned already, and Krugman in fact did mention how when Romney Senior ran for office he disclosed 12 years worth of returns. I don’t think Romney is hiding anything illegal, but whatever he is hiding will make him look extremely bad and likely torpedo his Presidential ambitions. The more he denies it, the worse he looks. Furchrissakes, you don’t run for President if you’re worried about your privacy and being put under the microsope. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/158 "2012-07-19T03:01:10Z")
How likely is it that the Obama administration actually has seen Romney’s tax returns, and this is why they are pushing so hard? I mean how hard would it be for them to get ahold of? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/159 "2012-07-19T03:03:24Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > How likely is it that the Obama administration actually has seen Romney’s tax returns, and this is why they are pushing so hard? I mean how hard would it be for them to get ahold of? I was thinking of asking the same thing. It’s not impossible, right? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740/160 "2012-07-19T03:24:39Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I personally think Krugman is a fool, and that Romney’s nondisclosure is based on the idea that it’s nobody else’s business what his finances are. If he doesn’t want his money-managing techniques to be any of my business, he doesn’t get to ask me to hire him for the job of managing the nation’s affairs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-hiding-immorality-criminality-both-or-neither/627740.md?page=9)