# Is Romney secretly brilliant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 4, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360 "2012-08-04T00:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/81 "2012-08-07T20:58:27Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So is it your position that > > 1. Stephanie Cutter and Bob Bauer are not associated with the Obama campaign? > 2. They are not implying that Romney committed a crime. > 3. Their phrasing does not allow for deniability i.e. if Romney says that Obama is accusing him of commiting a crime them Obama cannot say they never said that. 1. They are not implying that Romney committed a crime. It would be a felony if he falsified the SEC documents. They are saying the SEC documents were not falsified, and should be taken at face value; Romney was the sole stockholder, president and CEO of Bain Capital in 2001, receiving a salary that exceed $100,000. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/82 "2012-08-07T21:08:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So is it your position that > > 1. Stephanie Cutter and Bob Bauer are not associated with the Obama campaign? > 2. They are not implying that Romney committed a crime. > 3. Their phrasing does not allow for deniability i.e. if Romney says that Obama is accusing him of commiting a crime them Obama cannot say they never said that. 1. This has nothing to do with Romney’s tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/83 "2012-08-07T21:13:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I took the comments about “illegal acts” to be referring to the tax record issue, not the Bain filings issue. The initial quote was indeed about the IRS returns: > [@greenslime](#): > > Actually, quite a few people are saying exactly that–that he is refusing to disclose his returns because they conceal some impropriety. But in anycase, the point of pointing out falsifying the SEC documents would be illegal wasn’t to suggest Romney was acting illegally, it was to convince people that the documents must be correct. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/84 "2012-08-08T04:30:53Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Who, in all this stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid debate about Romney’s tax returns, thinks that the IRS hasn’t already minutely scrutinized each and every one of them? Does anyone think that if they were released to the public, that anyone would find any examples of impropriety that had somehow escaped the IRS??? > > Come _on_! > > As far as when he actually “left” Bain Capital, he’s already explained the nature of his relationship with the company during the period in question. There’s nothing particularly unusual or “shady” about it. > > Can we all move on to examining the guy’s fitness for the Presidency now? Oh, okay. Let’s examine his fitness for the Presidency. Hmm. I see that he gives his party affiliation as “Republican.” Well, there’s your problem right there. He’s unfit to be the President. Sorry, being a Republican has that effect at this point in history. Every Republican president since 1969 is proof of that. Now that we’ve got that out of the way, let’s go do something that’s a better use of our time and energy, such as lobbying Jackson Publick to get a move on with the next season of _The Venture Bros._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/85 "2012-08-08T05:37:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Every Republican president since 1969 is proof of that. I think Ford’s been under-rated and I feel that, while he wasn’t great, he was at least a good President. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/86 "2012-08-08T08:03:37Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > And to repeat, if they have no income, we don’t tax them. Depends what you mean by"we", since property is taxed by local government in many US jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/87 "2012-08-08T15:24:12Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > It’s the economy, stupid. No need to call me stupid. 😛 Just kidding of course. Thanks for the info! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/88 "2012-08-08T16:11:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > They are not implying that Romney committed a crime. They are (correctly) noting that Romney either 1)committed a crime or 2)lied about his association with Bain. They then go on to emphatically declare that Romney is a liar, and are thus in his corner when it comes to exonerating him of any criminal accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360/89 "2012-08-08T22:25:33Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I don’t think I disagree but I do have qualifications: > > 1. He is better at national debates than 95-100% of the posters here.\* Just saying. This stuff isn’t as easy as it looks. > > 2. He is above average at debating, even at the rarified Presidential candidate level. James Fallows: Mitt Romney’s presence on the stage of course gives just the opposite impression from [Ron] Paul’s, with all-too-evident calibration of “How will this go over?” But he has become very, very good at the necessary political segue of disposing of the question that was actually asked with a brief phrase, then moving on to what he wants to say. He is objectively good as a debater. Obama: take note. I thought Ronald Reagan looked like an idiot on TV. But he was a highly saavy politician, albeit tempered by emerging Alzheimer’s near the end of his Presidency. > > ETA **greenslime1951** : You may be missing the point. The IRS announced an amnesty of foreign accounts a couple of years ago. Romney may have come clean at that point, with an account of small size to him, but enormous to the average American. [Romney's tax returns: Is the 2009 Swiss bank account amnesty what he doesn't want us to see?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/17/romney_s_tax_returns_is_the_2009_swiss_bank_account_amnesty_what_he_doesn_t_want_us_to_see_.html) > More generally, there are all manner of tax dodges that are technically legal but politically damaging. There’s a trope among accountants: the poor evade taxes, while the rich avoid taxes. And some of these tax avoidance schemes can be pretty sleazy. Frankly I’m surprised he hasn’t managed his affairs so that he could release 5 or 7 years of taxes. He’s been angling for the Presidency since at least the early 1990s after all. > > - …few of whom have practice at televised debates. Romney is better at many things than 95-100% of the people here. Running a business, succeeding in academics, earning wealth, etc. The point isn’t is he better than me or you, it is how does he come across in debates. Romney doesn’t seem to want to alienate the conservative base, he also has things he wants to hide (his health care law in MA, his taxes, his stance on banning birth control via stating life begins at conception), and he has a long verifiable track record of having totally different opinions on major issues that alienate tons of people no matter which side he takes. All of those things make him vulnerable in a debate. His responses when he was asked about his taxes seem to me like what we will see in the presidential debates. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/QNHINgPx6_c/hqdefault.jpg "US election 2012: Mitt Romney booed over tax returns during South Carolina debate") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHINgPx6_c) He may be able to slide out of a few, but even if he does even that will catch up to him. If there is a series of debates where he never answers any hard questions that isn’t going to endear him to too many people who are on the fence. Like I was saying, if Romney builds his support when people see and hear him, why is he avoiding the media (aside from echo chambers)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-romney-secretly-brilliant/630360.md?page=4)