# Is rudeness ever appropriate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721 "2012-12-11T18:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/21 "2012-12-11T20:30:22Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > can rudeness _ever_ be considered appropriate in any situation? Of course it can. I was going to provide a hypothetical example, but **Left Hand of Dorkness** ’s real-world example will do just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/22 "2012-12-11T20:39:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Of course it can. I was going to provide a hypothetical example, but **Left Hand of Dorkness** ’s real-world example will do just fine. But LHOD’s example isn’t an example of rudeness. An _unnecessary_ interruption is rude. In an emergency situation like that, failure to interrupt would be rude. (Actually, worse than rude.) ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/23 "2012-12-11T21:25:55Z")
In situations where someone’s trying to use social norms against you, yeah, go ahead and be rude. There are always three or four people soliciting donations near my downtown office. They’re trained to be really pushy - they’ll plant themselves square in your path, put a hand out to shake, and say “Hi! What’s your name?” in a fake cheerful voice. I blow right past them. Rude? Eh, they were trying to trap me into a conversation I didn’t want to have. There’s no moral obligation to go along with that. (My favorite was a guy who scanned the crowd for his next target, then pointed at me and said, “And, I choose you!” What, do I look like a Pokemon to you? “Pika pika” translates to “Go fight your own goddamn battles, you imbecile.”) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/24 "2012-12-11T21:27:08Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > In situations where someone’s trying to use social norms against you, yeah, go ahead and be rude. There are always three or four people soliciting donations near my downtown office. They’re trained to be really pushy - they’ll plant themselves square in your path, put a hand out to shake, and say “Hi! What’s your name?” in a fake cheerful voice. I blow right past them. Rude? Eh, they were trying to trap me into a conversation I didn’t want to have. There’s no moral obligation to go along with that. The nailpolish ones are the ones that make me crazy. They always accost you in the mall. “Scuse me, are your nails natural?” Leave me alone! I’m just trying to shop in peace here! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/25 "2012-12-11T21:39:07Z")
Standing Room only on a very crowded bus, and the guy standing next to me grabs my ass. Was I rude? Well, if screaming “What the Fuck are you doing grabbing my ass?” on a crowded bus is rude, yes, I was. And I considered it entirely appropriate, and much better than “Excuse me, but would you please remove your hand from my posterior?” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/26 "2012-12-11T22:27:51Z")
Predators are always looking to prey on your fear of looking like a jerk when you respond to their predations. They’re only too happy to turn your accusations and finger pointing from them to making it be all about YOU and what a jerk you’re being rather than looking at what evil they were working on. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/27 "2012-12-11T23:01:15Z")
Hm. I think the case is that: 1. There are times when it’s necessary to be direct (eg. “FIRE!”, “STOP TOUCHING ME!”, WWII, etc) in a manner that, _normally_ would be rude. 2. Most people agree that #1 are appropriate, but some would say “they’re rude, which is ok in that situation” and others would say “they’re not rude, rudeness is only when it’s not called for”. Thus, people disagree more on “whether that counts as rude” than “is it acceptable”. And then there’s being directly insulting. When someone is sufficiently provoked, I’d say being insulting is somewhat rude (because it’s not absolutely necessary), but is justified. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/28 "2012-12-11T23:20:47Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > In situations where someone’s trying to use social norms against you, yeah, go ahead and be rude. There are always three or four people soliciting donations near my downtown office. They’re trained to be really pushy - they’ll plant themselves square in your path, put a hand out to shake, and say “Hi! What’s your name?” in a fake cheerful voice. I blow right past them. Rude? Eh, they were trying to trap me into a conversation I didn’t want to have. There’s no moral obligation to go along with that. Yep. It’s like telemarketers. If you try to get off the phone in the way that counts as “polite” within normal company–waiting for them to say good-bye–it will never happen. It’s ok to interrupt them and say 'I’m sorry. We don’t do business over the phone" and hang up without waiting for a response. That’d be terribly rude if I were talking to my mother, but I think it’s okay here. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/29 "2012-12-11T23:26:14Z")
If someone is knowingly being an obnoxious cock, then rudeness may be an entirely acceptable response. That’s not to say that it’s always a wise or advisable response - an obnoxious cock may be goaded into being an obnoxious _violent_ cock, or one may decide to occupy the moral high ground for any number of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/30 "2012-12-12T01:53:50Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Standing Room only on a very crowded bus, and the guy standing next to me grabs my ass. Was I rude? Well, if screaming “What the Fuck are you doing grabbing my ass?” on a crowded bus is rude, yes, I was. And I considered it entirely appropriate, and much better than “Excuse me, but would you please remove your hand from my posterior?” This is what I came in to say. If someone is sexually harassing you there is no response that can be construed as rude, regardless of violent wording. ETA: this goes for both sexes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/31 "2012-12-12T01:58:06Z")
I usually ask first: Is there a reason you’re taking that tone with me? Not always. Some people don’t understand tact or civility and deserve no quarter. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/32 "2012-12-12T02:21:13Z")
Is it rude to plow through idiots who don’t stand to the side when the subway doors open? If so, I guess I revel in my rudeness sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/33 "2012-12-12T02:27:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > They’re not rude, they’re brusque. There is a difference. I have had wonderful treatment in NYC but you can’t fuck around. You can’t walk up to people and say “Uh…” But if you say “I need to get to Times Square, which subway line do I take?” They go out of their way to be helpful. If you’re in real trouble in New York, they’ll help. If you’re _not_ in real trouble…_you’re in **real** trouble._ ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/34 "2012-12-12T04:38:55Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > Eh, they were trying to trap me into a conversation I didn’t want to have. There’s no moral obligation to go along with that. Isn’t there? This is something I struggle with - why does my desire not to have a conversation trump someone else’s desire to have a conversation with me? I don’t want to have a one-sided relationship with society, so some compromise is needed, right? But if I compromise with every stranger who wants something from me, I have nothing left for myself. Help me understand - why _isn’t_ there a moral obligation to have the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/35 "2012-12-12T04:41:08Z")
In situations of self-defense, for one, all concepts of “rudeness” go out the window. In fact some sources I’ve seen have recommended swearing at the guy as a first line of verbal defense, e.g. “Get your FUCKING hands OFF me!” as often hearing a woman swear is so startling that he immediately backs off. It basically short-circuits his expectations of the meek passive polite-under-any-circumstances woman and scares him off. It doesn’t work with every guy, but it’s better than a physical fight when it does work. “Making a scene” is one piece of self-defense advice from _The Gift of Fear._ Quite a number of would-be assailants only start because they assume the woman will just go along with it. I’ll also get progressively less polite if anyone insists on making me say “no” (for any reason) more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/36 "2012-12-12T04:47:15Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > Isn’t there? > > This is something I struggle with - why does my desire not to have a conversation trump someone else’s desire to have a conversation with me? I don’t want to have a one-sided relationship with society, so some compromise is needed, right? But if I compromise with every stranger who wants something from me, I have nothing left for myself. > > Help me understand - why _isn’t_ there a moral obligation to have the conversation? Because you have the right of consent to any interaction. No one has the right to force or coerce your consent. No one has any particular right to an interaction with you. This is true of all interactions, not just ones that invade your personal space. If you engage with a person, or society, do it because you want to. There are days when chit chat about the weather at the bus stop is welcome, and days when I just want to read my book. (There’s never a day when I want to listen to a canvasser, though.) ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/37 "2012-12-12T04:52:25Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > If you’re in real trouble in New York, they’ll help. If you’re _not_ in real trouble…_you’re in **real** trouble._ With a capital T that rhymes with P and stands for POOL! ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/38 "2012-12-12T05:00:36Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > If you engage with a person, or society, do it because you want to. There are days when chit chat about the weather at the bus stop is welcome, and days when I just want to read my book. (There’s never a day when I want to listen to a canvasser, though.) Trouble is I want the benefits of living in a society - say, having a stranger call 911 if I’m unconscious on the sidewalk, but I feel resentful that I’m expected to engage in chit chat because some stranger is feeling lonely. That’s where selfishness comes in. If a hello were enough, I might be able to live with the compromise, but I’ve been sucked into listening to a stranger for 20-30 minutes because I wasn’t rude enough to cut them off after hello. Doesn’t that make sense? I feel not only rude but selfish. I don’t understand how other people justify themselves. I feel resentful about my obligations, but don’t know how to get out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/39 "2012-12-12T05:09:26Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > Trouble is I want the benefits of living in a society - say, having a stranger call 911 if I’m unconscious on the sidewalk, but I feel resentful that I’m expected to engage in chit chat because some stranger is feeling lonely. That’s where selfishness comes in. If a hello were enough, I might be able to live with the compromise, but I’ve been sucked into listening to a stranger for 20-30 minutes because I wasn’t rude enough to cut them off after hello. > > Doesn’t that make sense? I feel not only rude but selfish. I don’t understand how other people justify themselves. I feel resentful about my obligations, but don’t know how to get out of them. Are you me? And I get that all the time too. I look so approachable even though I feel so leave me the fuck alone. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721/40 "2012-12-12T05:16:01Z")
> [@OleOneEye](#): > > Help me understand - why _isn’t_ there a moral obligation to have the conversation? Because your time and attention is yours to give as you choose. Other people can ask for it, but they don’t get to just claim it. It doesn’t belong to them, it belongs to you. If that sounds one sided, keep in mind that everyone has the same amount of discretion here - you can’t oblige them to have a conversation if they don’t want to either. Interaction has to be a mutual thing. If either party doesn’t want to, then that desire wins. That said, sure, there are a lot of situations where it’s friendly and polite to respond to a stranger’s comment about the weather. It makes living with other humans easier. But it’s a choice, not an obligation. Anyone who gets pissed at you for not wanting to talk to them or otherwise acts like you owe them attention can go get fucked. (Usual disclaimers apply: this mostly regards conversations with strangers. It’s somewhat different if you’re dealing with your boss or a police officer. You’re free to ignore friends and family if you want to, but it’ll probably have a chilling effect on the relationship. With some “friends”, this is not actually a bad thing.) On preview: Calling 911 for someone in trouble is very different from letting a stranger talk your ear off. You’re not going to lose the first if you refuse the second. Keep in mind that they’ve just cornered an uninterested stranger to fill their own emotional needs. That’s rude. And bad manners. It’s appropriate to meet bad manners with a firm ‘nope, not doing that today’. And it’s okay to be selfish sometimes. You only have so much time and energy to spend, and you get to choose where to put it in order to do the most good. That may mean spending your time talking to a friend or taking care of yourself instead of spending it on a stranger. It’s that magical boundaries thing again. I read on the train and only rarely talk to people because I need my quiet reading time, dammit. Then when I get home I’m happy to see my husband instead of cranky. You’ve got to take care of yourself in order to be any good to others. Phew, sorry for the sermon. Hope that’s more helpful than confusing! I can try to offer practical tips if you’re interested. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rudeness-ever-appropriate/643721.md?page=3)