# Is Sage 'Safe' (More Info Follows)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386 "2020-02-23T05:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/1 "2020-02-23T05:41:47Z")
As I said before, I apparently have Type 2 Diabetes. It is being carefully monitored and treated by a physician. But I still am open to anything that could help. I have read in various places that the herb Sage could be of benefit. It’s effects are similar to Metformin (which I am also taking BTW). Anyway I am not asking about the efficacy of Sage. I really don’t even know if I will consider it. But something I read in _The Herb Book_ by John Lust has me a little concerned. He says extended use can be dangerous. Mr. Lust certainly has questionable at best medical credentials. And I know he has been wrong in the past. Is Sage dangerous in larger dose, and extended use? I am talking about a level teaspoon in 8 oz. of hot water a day. I probably won’t do that much, if I do it at all. I also remind you this is not a life and death matter. Sage is obviously a harmless herb. I am talking in the long run. BTW I do have a box of Sage tea. But it expired a couple of years ago. I will probably use the form that is meant as a spice (does that make a difference?). :):):):):):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/2 "2020-02-23T06:30:40Z")
Sage infused in hot water isn’t going to help you much. In an article pithily entitled, “Metformin-like effect of Salvia officinalis (common sage): is it useful in diabetes prevention?” available [here](http://https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16923227), sage may be useful in preventing diabetes, but not in treating it: > [@](#): > > The present results seem to indicate that sage tea does not possess antidiabetic effects at this level. However, its effects on fasting glucose levels in normal animals and its metformin-like effects on rat hepatocytes suggest that sage may be useful as a food supplement in the prevention of type 2 diabetes mellitus by lowering the plasma glucose of individuals at risk. Sage is only a harmless herb if taken in low doses for a short period. If Metformin works, why would you want to go off it? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/3 "2020-02-23T06:55:03Z")
If you like the way it tastes in food, that’s fine, but I would recommend that you stick to conventional therapies. Diabetes is not a disease you want to play around with. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/4 "2020-02-23T08:06:08Z")
If sage treated T2 diabetes we wouldn’t have needed to create Metformin. CMC, Type 2 Diabeticfnord! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/5 "2020-02-23T10:45:20Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Sage is only a harmless herb if taken in low doses for a short period. If Metformin works, why would you want to go off it? According to my mom, Metformin severely hurts her stomach, and I’ve always assumed that is the reason that some people would rather not take it. Side effects are very often the reason people want other choices. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/6 "2020-02-23T13:20:16Z")
Sage has a high concentration of thujone, the naughty chemical blamed for the supposed effects of absinthe but never actually present in absinthe in significant amounts. > **[Thujone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone)** > > Thujone (/ˈθuːdʒoʊn/ (listen)) is a ketone and a monoterpene that occurs predominantly in two diastereomeric (epimeric) forms: (−)-α-thujone and (+)-β-thujone. > Though it is best known as a chemical compound in the spirit absinthe, it is unlikely to be responsible for absinthe's alleged stimulant and psychoactive effects due to the small quantities present. Thujone acts on the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) as an antagonist (opposite to the effects of alcohol). As a competitive a... ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/7 "2020-02-23T15:19:28Z")
In moderation, a couple cups of sage tea daily (blech) probably would be safe. If it works like metformin in humans (?) then it could conceivably interfere with prescription metformin. Always let your doc know what supplements you’re taking. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/8 "2020-02-23T20:36:01Z")
Just to clarify, I am NOT going off my Metformin. I was only thinking of supplementing it. I get the impression from your posts Sage is probably a poor choice for me. Are there any other herbs I might want to consider (again to supplement, not replace)? There is a multi herb tea at a local bulk food store that claims to be good for type II diabetes. Does anyone know anything about that? BTW you got to buy _The Herb Book_ by John Lust. He covers **EVERYTHING**. Even poisonous herbs. I don’t think anyone should take poisonous herbs. But I mean who else is going to do that? Please don’t take poisonous herbs. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/9 "2020-02-23T22:29:03Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Sage infused in hot water isn’t going to help you much. In an article pithily entitled, “Metformin-like effect of Salvia officinalis (common sage): is it useful in diabetes prevention?” available [here](http://https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16923227), sage may be useful in preventing diabetes, but not in treating it: Can’t follow the link. Your post seems to create an artificial distinction between “preventing” and “treating” Diabetes II. If sage is effective in ‘prevention’, it is also presumably effective in preventing progression. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/10 "2020-02-24T03:05:01Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > BTW you got to buy _The Herb Book_ by John Lust. He covers **EVERYTHING**. Even poisonous herbs. Since Lust is a naturopath I’d take any recommendations of his with a whole canister of salt (naturopaths commonly endorse homeopathy and other forms of quackery). ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/11 "2020-02-24T08:09:02Z")
Thanks for your replies:). BTW I have got to tell about another book. _The Green Pharmacy_ by James A. Duke Ph.D. I didn’t even realize I still had it. I am glad I do. He recommends Fenugreek, Black Tea (Cf. my ‘sipping dilemma’ from another thread) and _Neurolaena Lobata_. I have no idea where to get that, but am very interested. BTW does anyone know anything about vinegar and diabetes? FWIW I still have a large unopened jar of raw apple cider vinegar. Thanks again for your replies:). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/12 "2020-02-24T11:46:46Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > BTW does anyone know anything about vinegar and diabetes? FWIW I still have a large unopened jar of raw apple cider vinegar. [This article](https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/862975) gives some information, including recommending consuming it as a salad dressing. [This is from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar-and-your-health#1) Both point out that consuming large amounts can result in low potassium, which can become serious if you get extreme about these things. It’s not going to cure diabetes but apparently it can have a role in managing it, as long as you don’t overdo it. In the spirit of giving suggestions, here is my vinegar slaw recipe: 1 pound shredded cabbage (I like to use red cabbage, but exact variety doesn’t matter. Feel free to “cheat” and buy pre-shredded if you want) 1 large carrot, shredded 2 green onions, diced (or equivalent amount of other type of onion or leek) 1/4 cup red wine vinegar (but you can use any sort of vinegar you want, including that bottle of apple cider you have) 2 tablespoons oil (your choice - lately I’ve been using canola but olive oil or others work, too) 1 tablespoon salt 1 tablespoon sugar (but you could use an artificial sweetener if you so desire) Whisk the vinegar, oil, salt, and sugar together and pour over shredded vegetables until they are all coated in oil. Allow to rest at least one hour in the refrigerator before eating, although I prefer a day or two. Vegan, gluten-free, and even sugar-free if you want to make it that way. It might be a more pleasant way to get your daily vinegar than trying to drink it straight or in water. Also makes it harder to overdo the vinegar. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/13 "2020-02-24T14:11:04Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > BTW I have got to tell about another book. _The Green Pharmacy_ by James A. Duke Ph.D. I didn’t even realize I still had it. I am glad I do. He recommends Fenugreek, Black Tea (Cf. my ‘sipping dilemma’ from another thread) and _Neurolaena Lobata_. James Duke’s Ph.D. is in botany. He has no medical background. > [@](#): > > I have no idea where to get that, but am very interested. Why? There’s no evidence that [jackass bitters](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ptr.782) has any effect on diabetes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SuperAbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SuperAbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperAbe)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/14 "2020-02-25T03:21:49Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > As I said before, I apparently have Type 2 Diabetes. It is being carefully monitored and treated by a physician. But I still am open to anything that could help. > > I have read in various places that the herb Sage could be of benefit. It’s effects are similar to Metformin (which I am also taking BTW). > > Anyway I am not asking about the efficacy of Sage. I really don’t even know if I will consider it. But something I read in _The Herb Book_ by John Lust has me a little concerned. > > He says extended use can be dangerous. Mr. Lust certainly has questionable at best medical credentials. And I know he has been wrong in the past. > > Is Sage dangerous in larger dose, and extended use? I am talking about a level teaspoon in 8 oz. of hot water a day. > > I probably won’t do that much, if I do it at all. I also remind you this is not a life and death matter. Sage is obviously a harmless herb. I am talking in the long run. > > BTW I do have a box of Sage tea. But it expired a couple of years ago. I will probably use the form that is meant as a spice (does that make a difference?). > > :):):):):):)🙂 It is completely normal as a person with a newly diagnosed chronic disease like T2DM (or whatever we’re calling it this week) to want to actively Do Something to address the problem. You are doing something: you’re seeing a doctor and you’re taking the first line drug (metformin). If you want to Do Something else, work on the dietary changes and physical activity parts your doc has undoubtedly also brought up. Here’s what not to do: start taking a bunch of unregulated, uncontrolled, and frankly unknown botanical products. They won’t make a damn bit of difference and they are not harmless. The old saw “Do you know what we call Alternative Medicine that works? Medicine.” is mostly funny because it’s true. And, while serious side effects are rare (but non-zero - some of the most horribly deranged lab results I’ve ever seen have been from patients who just liked such-and-such herbal tea or this one muscle building supplement), you will spend time and money on something that has less than a snowball’s chance in Hell of doing you any good. Skip the herbs. Buy better groceries and taking up walking as a hobby. You’ll do more good for your DM than anything else. Promise. ---
**Author:** ![SuperAbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SuperAbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperAbe)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/15 "2020-02-25T03:24:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > In the spirit of giving suggestions, here is my vinegar slaw recipe: I had forgotten how much I loved this recipe: made it for dinner…and will need to make it a regular part of the rotation. Thanks for the reminder! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/16 "2020-02-25T03:36:19Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If sage treated T2 diabetes we wouldn’t have needed to create Metformin. I was seeing a woman a few years ago who is a die-hard herbal fan who insisted on sending me links to every supposed cure or treatment for type 2 diabetes (it took me a while to get the message across that I’m Type 1, which is a little bit different). The thing that got her to pursue other interests was pointing out that diabetes is a killer on a planetary scale; if this guy’s cure really works, where’s his Nobel Prize and his picture on the cover of Time Magazine? However, after a few months of her suggestions, I had assembled a cookbook’s worth of ingredients and found that just about everything most people have in their spice rack will make some minor change if you handle it just right. How about this instead… eat a balanced diet with a mix of lean-meat and vegetable proteins, a variety of vegetables, an interesting variety of spices, and take it easy on the carbs. Also known as the Mediterranean diet. ---
**Author:** ![road\_lobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@road\_lobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/road_lobo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sage-safe-more-info-follows/848386/17 "2020-02-25T13:00:57Z")
Calorie restriction for long-term remission of type 2 diabetes: > **[Calorie restriction for long-term remission of type 2 diabetes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6399621/)** > > Starting with a hypothesis which postulated a simple explanation arising from the basic cause of type 2 diabetes, a series of studies has introduced a paradigm shift in our understanding of the condition. Gradual accumulation of fat in the liver and... Consult a physician before trying anything like this. My GP advised against it. His opinion was that most people wouldn’t be able to maintain severe calorie restriction.