# Is Samantha Bee being too hard on white women/(herself)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175 "2016-11-16T16:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/21 "2016-11-17T13:47:20Z")
One thing to keep in mind about a lot of Trump supporters is that they _perceive_ they are undergoing a lot of hardship. (Most of them actually aren’t doing at all bad.) People who view things as not going well their way lash out at easily targeted groups. Minorities of all sorts. Immigrants. And of course women. There’s a _lot_ of women bashing going on within this group. Note that among all these targeted groups, one and only went went for Trump. This is very, very odd. Why align yourself with people who are targeting you? Sure, there’s always a few who align unexpectedly. But the sheer numbers here for white women is astonishing. There is no rational explanation for this. (Now why the people worried about jobs going overseas, income inequality, etc. would go with Trump: the person least able, qualified or interested in helping them is another irrational universe. It’s like a drowning person opting for an anvil over a life vest.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/22 "2016-11-17T13:51:47Z")
“White women voted for Trump in 2016 because they still believe white men are their saviors” — [Election 2016: White women voted for Donald Trump in 2016 because they still believe white men are their saviors](http://qz.com/835567/election-2016-white-women-voted-for-donald-trump-in-2016-because-they-still-believe-white-men-are-their-saviors/) — > [@](#): > > White women need education, empathy, and a collective consciousness. In the minds of the 53% of white women who supported Trump, what makes them think that a sexist, racist white man will change the system and upend “the establishment”? This contradictory logic highlights a toxic cocktail of cognitive dissonance, internalized misogyny, and not-so-subtle racism that continues to impede women’s political and economic progress. This isn’t ideology; this is about ending the oppression of all women and eradicating the structures that prevent women from controlling their bodies and their lives. > > It’s clear now that far too many white women still see white men as their saviors. Feminism will not succeed in its goal of ending oppression until white women break this pattern. Because as history shows, white men are in no hurry to make women their equals—in fact, doing so would only threaten their sense of masculinity and their manhood. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/23 "2016-11-18T16:45:50Z")
There, there, honey - you just voted for Trump because you don’t know what’s good for you. It’s not your fault - you just got emotional. We know that things like that happen. So next time, just listen to what we tell you and do as you are told. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/24 "2016-11-18T17:12:26Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Thanks. It stems from growing up. > > I had two sexist teachers, one was particularly bad. Always saying that boys are “dumb”. She even called me “stupid” directly, which my parents took issue with. They would both try and put down boys in the class. I also think my parents were secretly hoping for a girl before I was born. I know it’s part of “the patriarchy” that I wasn’t allowed to cry, but I was a sensitive kid. Also part of “the patriarchy”, I was brought up on sitcoms where, though they were the main characters, all the men were idiots. Constantly heard women call men “pigs” or “dogs”. > > I don’t want kids to grow up being ashamed. I want them to be proud for standing up for things that aren’t directly in their own interests. I haven’t had the exact same experience, but I know very well where you are coming from. With specific regards to the teachers, there are some teachers who used their educational classroom setting as a way of setting right past wrongs in their life. If they were bullied as a kid, they tend to stand up for students who remind them of them. So it’s possible that the female teachers who bullied or mocked you might either have simply just disliked men or boys, or maybe they grew up in a family that was anti-girl and they are taking out their frustrations on men as a way of getting catharsis for their own personal grievances. Unfortunately, the problem with that is that it just sets up the cycle to repeat itself. Those boys might grow up to be anti-women themselves. But yes, boys and men face unique challenges too, and I think society is finally taking note. I was very heartened to see the backlash against the “[Boys are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_are_stupid,_throw_rocks_at_them!_controversy)” T-shirts a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/25 "2016-11-18T18:56:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And it usually has to do with a white or male person denying the conditions of someone else’s life based on his or her own perspective… … > [@ftg](#): > > One thing to keep in mind about a lot of Trump supporters is that they _perceive_ they are undergoing a lot of hardship. (Most of them actually aren’t doing at all bad.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/26 "2016-11-18T21:07:02Z")
I’m glad I’m not the only one to notice that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/27 "2016-11-19T04:30:35Z")
The implication being that an objective measure of economic condition is equivalent to a dismissal of experiences of discrimination by members of a dominant group who don’t experience it? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/28 "2016-11-19T22:43:11Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1SaD-gSZO4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1SaD-gSZO4) > > Wow. She really sticks it to white women. > > Why are people like this? I’ve been sick of people telling me I’M the problem, (when I vote the way I do), for a long time now. Now I see white women blaming themselves, and it makes me sad. I don’t want people to feel ashamed of who they are any more than I want to be shamed for who I am. > > People act as if these women have no agency when they don’t vote for their candidate. White woman here. Nope, she’s not too hard on white women. I also don’t know that she’s quite saying they’re “the” problem. I think any white woman complaining that Bee is being too hard on them should just be glad what she says is at least delivered in a humorous way! For the record, I don’t think someone regretting how they voted (or didn’t vote) or how others in their group did or didn’t vote equals feeling “ashamed of who they are.” It might just be stark recognition that numbers matter. I don’t understand your last statement. What people “act like these women have no agency”? Do you mean Samantha Bee? Because that’s not at all how I interpret her criticisms. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/29 "2016-11-20T10:07:36Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > … Stop doing the false equivalence thing. First off, many of us are the white working class, so we know exactly how bad we have it. I know my life is better off than many people of color. I had a good school, for one thing. I didn’t have gang violence. I have both my parents. And I have enough money to afford this Internet connection. We also have actual data showing that most Trump voters are better off than they claim to be. I know for a fact that nearly everyone I know who voted for Trump has much more money than me. Because nearly everyone I know is better off financially than me. They just think they aren’t, acting like it’s horrible not to be able to afford a vacation to Disney World this year. This meme of trying to _tu quoque_ everything doesn’t work. It will never work. Because the situations will never be the same. The white working class has problems, but none of them are the problems that minorities have. Working class blacks always have the white working class problems PLUS other “black” problems. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175/30 "2016-11-20T10:08:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There, there, honey - you just voted for Trump because you don’t know what’s good for you. It’s not your fault - you just got emotional. We know that things like that happen. > > So next time, just listen to what we tell you and do as you are told. Mocking a strawman instead of actually listening is part of why Trump won. And that goes for both sides. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-samantha-bee-being-too-hard-on-white-women-herself/772175.md?page=1)