# is satire dead? GLAAD vs. Jay & Silent Bob **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2001, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046 "2001-08-05T23:18:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/1 "2001-08-05T23:18:47Z")
I hope this is the right forum, it seems to me there is a debate here. For those who don’t know, apparently GLAAD has some problems with the upcoming movie \*Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back \*, check the links here and here. About the only good thing about this is that as a bisexual I now have some understanding of how Christians feel about fundies (those \*!@#$ do not speak for me!!!). ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/2 "2001-08-05T23:21:31Z")
[here](http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010803/en/kevin_smith_2.html) and [here](http://www.glaad.org/org/publications/documents/index.html?record=2815). ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/3 "2001-08-05T23:29:51Z")
I had read about this matter in the right wing press. They see it as an effort by GLAAD to blackmail the film company a al Jesse Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/4 "2001-08-05T23:44:04Z")
Well, If you read the comments from GLAAD and from Kevin Smith you’ll see that it’s slightly milder than all that, if only because Smith is probably the most gay-positive mainstream filmmaker there is. Smith was pissed because the way the story was reported made it look like his \* donation \* was an admission of wrongdoing. Where GLAAD has pissed me off is in taking the tack that they are trying to protect gay kids from name-calling. “It’s for the \* children \* people, the \* children \*!!” I seriously doubt that anyone \* doesnt \* get the joke when Jay introduces his “hetero life-mate” Silent Bob. Jay makes gay jokes for the same reason Banky did in Chasing Amy. - Damn, that was a lot of italics. \* ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/5 "2001-08-05T23:47:51Z")
Kevin Smith doesn’t seem to have a problem with GLAAD, so I don’t see why I should, either. Hey, kudos to them for handling it in a dignified manner: no protests, no boycott, no attempt to alter the film’s content beyond a brief note during the end credits. They even bothered to watch the movie first! I think the only depressing thing here is that GLAAD actually has a point. They know its satire, Smith knows its satire, we all know its satire. Unfortunetly, a significant percentage of the movie-going public _won’t_ get the satire. Look at _Beavis and Butthead._ ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/6 "2001-08-05T23:59:37Z")
Y’know, the dumbasses don’t worry me, it’s the people who think they’re not the dumbasses. Of course we all need to be protected from our own ignorance. [sub] that was supposed to be ironic, how in hell do you do that roll eyes smilie? [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/7 "2001-08-06T00:01:03Z")
make that everyone and their dog. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/8 "2001-08-06T00:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > is satire dead? It’s a forgotten art, at the very least. A lot of people have become thin-skinned in past years. It’s depressing. We need a _new_ Modest Proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/9 "2001-08-06T00:08:22Z")
What exactly upset them-the “hetero life mate” comment? If so, I have to say, that’s a reach. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/10 "2001-08-06T00:20:38Z")
I believe (the movie hasn’t come out yet, but the GLAAD people have seen it) that there are several gay jokes, Jay uses gay to mean lame, etc. But, this is the fifth movie with these characters, and a recurring joke is that Jay is uncomfortable with his own sexuality. For the record, Jay almost always introduces Bob as his “hetero life-mate”, that is part of the joke. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/11 "2001-08-06T01:11:39Z")
GLAAD is full of crap. I loathe cultural watchdogs who want to eliminate satire becuase it might confuse simpleminded people. Since when do we gay folk get a bye from being teased? One has to look at intent and Kevin Smith is very gay-friendly without the slightest animus towards us same-sex lovers. In effect, GLAAD is saying that they should be able to judge what is palatable for society as a whole because the rest of us poor schlubs are too stupid to tell fiction from real life. Next on FOX: When Fags Turn Fascist! ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/12 "2001-08-06T01:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > \*\*But, this is the fifth movie with these characters, and a recurring joke is that Jay is uncomfortable with his own sexuality. > > \*\* Yeah, people have to look at this in the continuity of all of Smith’s movies. In _Dogma_, when Jay tells Rufus the Apostle to tell him something about himself, he tells him, “You masturbate more than anyone else on the planet.” “Everyone knows that,” says Jay. So Rufus replies, “When you do it, you’re thiking about guys.” That’s why they end up in the strip bar where they meet up with Serendipity–so Jay can “prove” to Silent Bob that he isn’t gay. It’s a whole big ongoing joke. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/13 "2001-08-06T01:54:55Z")
My home state of Oklahoma has just decided to take \* To Kill a Mockingbird\* off of the school reading lists. Damnit, every real reader I know points to that book as the start of a lifelong love of reading. A possible solution: all artist should have a cartoon of Mr. Mackey pop up and say “This is bad, MMMkay” whenever anything negative is presented in a story. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/14 "2001-08-06T01:56:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > is satire dead? > > It’s a forgotten art, at the very least. A lot of people have become thin-skinned in past years. It’s depressing. > > We need a _new_ Modest Proposal. \*\* Most people didn’t get A Modest Proposal when it was published, either. The scary part is, not everyone who thought Swift was serious thought it was a bad idea… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/15 "2001-08-06T02:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > My home state of Oklahoma has just decided to take To Kill a Mockingbird off of the school reading lists. For Odin’s sake, why? That is one of the best novels ever written, and an insightful _Bildungsroman_ dealing with a child’s reaction to the injustice of institutional-ized racism. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/16 "2001-08-06T02:22:01Z")
Well, this is the same state that tried to ban that infamous kiddie porn flick \* The Tin Drum \*. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/17 "2001-08-06T03:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Most people didn’t get A Modest Proposal when it was published, either. Well, those are the people we should cull and grind up into soylent purple. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/18 "2001-08-06T04:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > GLAAD is full of crap. I loathe cultural watchdogs who want to eliminate satire becuase it might confuse simpleminded people. Since when do we gay folk get a bye from being teased? One has to look at intent and Kevin Smith is very gay-friendly without the slightest animus towards us same-sex lovers. > > In effect, GLAAD is saying that they should be able to judge what is palatable for society as a whole because the rest of us poor schlubs are too stupid to tell fiction from real life. > Next on FOX: When Fags Turn Fascist! I don’t think GLAAD was trying to eliminate everything. They just wanted a note at the end of the credits(like anyone ever stays long enough to read it). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/19 "2001-08-06T04:32:14Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s important to note that at no time has GLAAD asked Kevin Smith or Miramax to change the content of, or drop plans to distribute or promote, Jay & Silent Bob. Nor are we launching any organized protests. From what I can see, GLAAD’s position seems to be that making a homophobic movie is alright as long as the check clears. With all due respect to Kevin Smith, I think it’s unlikely he’ll clear more than twenty or thirty million with his new release. _Planet of the Apes_ on the other hand had a record breaking opening weekend and is looking good to break the two hundred million mark. With this in mind, I’d like to put forth the following: > [@](#): > > Dear Mr Burton > > We, the readers of the Straight Dope Message Board, are shocked and appalled by your new film. The offensiveness of this work is so unspeakable that we won’t bother to explain what exactly it is that offends us. > > However, we’re reasonable folks. For a small donation of five hundred thousand dollars we’re prepared to drop all forms of protest and speak glowingly of how your movies have uplifted humanity. Act now and for an additional hundred thousand, we’ll throw in some praise for the overseas and video releases as well. > > Rot in Hell, Scumbag/Hugs and Kisses > (check whichever is applicable) > > All the gang at SDMB ---
**Author:** ![Jeeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@Jeeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeeves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046/20 "2001-08-06T04:35:10Z")
Most of the time, I forget that Glaad even exists. But every once in awhile they pop back in view and annoy me. I have had the displeasure of hearing Scott Seomin speak on the radio here in LA a couple of times, and both times the rationales that he brings up for what Glaad is ostensibly against have been fairly weak. The first time that I heard him speak, I don’t remember what it was about. The second time was during the entire Eminem Grammy’s controversy. While I am not big fan of Eminem, after hearing Scott argue against him on the air, I wanted to go out and buy his album just in spite. Glaad is way to thin skinned. Of course, I am bothered by anything that is an alliance against defamation, defamation of anything. But that is an argument for another thread. In closing, I am glad that most people ( I hope anyway) realize that Glaad and Seomin do not speak for most gay people, just a small percentage’s worth. Jeeves [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-satire-dead-glaad-vs-jay-silent-bob/75046.md?page=2)