# Is school prayer illegal in Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274 "2006-03-21T13:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/1 "2006-03-21T13:03:57Z")
Some Canadians tell me this but that doesn’t seem like Canada’s image of tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/2 "2006-03-21T13:28:17Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Some Canadians tell me this but that doesn’t seem like Canada’s image of tolerance. You do understand that praying in school is legal in the US, don’t you? The only prohibition is against _institutional prayer_. Individuals can pray as much as they like, as long as they don’t harass others or disrupt classes, and administrators may not force anyone to pray. AFAIK there is no national prohibition on institutional prayer in Canada but a number of provinces do have such rules. Their Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees freedom of religion in the same way the US does. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/3 "2006-03-21T15:46:27Z")
Alot of provinces have 2 public school systems; 1 secular, 1 Roman Catholic. Until the late 90s Quebec and Newfoundland didn’t even have secular schools. Quebec had a Catholic school system and a Protestant school system. Newfoundland had 3 or 4 differect school systems. Both Quebec and Newfoundland still have religious education in their schools (Quebec seems to be abolishing this). ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/4 "2006-03-21T16:21:39Z")
We said the Lord’s Prayer until grade 7, so 1982-83 in Alberta. I don’t recall ever having said it as a part of high school classes until I started to attend a Catholic school later on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/5 "2006-03-21T16:40:10Z")
In a recent GD thread, **San Stone** posted that you get to designate where your taxes go, either to secular schools or relilgious schools. If this is true, then I would assume school prayer is allowed in the religious schools, which do receive tax payer support. So, one could say that school-sponsored prayer is allowed in publicly funded schools, but the different tax/funding structure makes the question somewhat different than in the US. Also, note that \*\*Sam \*\*lives in Alberta, and things may be different in other Provinces. Any Canadians want to comment on that? ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/6 "2006-03-21T17:04:57Z")
> [@Brain Wreck](#): > > You do understand that praying in school is legal in the US, don’t you? The only prohibition is against _institutional prayer_. Individuals can pray as much as they like, as long as they don’t harass others or disrupt classes, and administrators may not force anyone to pray. > > AFAIK there is no national prohibition on institutional prayer in Canada but a number of provinces do have such rules. Their Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees freedom of religion in the same way the US does. In the school division my kids are in, they have a petition that is signed every year to allow the Lord’s prayer and religious instruction. Purely voluntary for the kids, but tell that to my atheist daughter who just wants to fit in. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/7 "2006-03-21T17:52:49Z")
In Saskatchewan, we stopped praying in public schools in about…'92? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/8 "2006-03-21T18:01:41Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > In a recent GD thread, **San Stone** posted that you get to designate where your taxes go, either to secular schools or relilgious schools. If this is true, then I would assume school prayer is allowed in the religious schools, which do receive tax payer support. So, one could say that school-sponsored prayer is allowed in publicly funded schools, but the different tax/funding structure makes the question somewhat different than in the US. Also, note that \*\*Sam \*\*lives in Alberta, and things may be different in other Provinces. > > Any Canadians want to comment on that? Well, AFAIK, the only religious public schools are Catholic. Certainly that’s the case here in Ontario. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/9 "2006-03-21T18:09:59Z")
In Ontario, there isn’t an official law on the books banning institutional prayer in the public system; but it is written into the policy of the public school board that religious studies are banned. We also choose whether our taxes will support public, or Catholic school boards. So, I’m an atheist who was baptized in the Church of Scotland, married to a Catholic with Quebec/Irish heritage, who supports and sends my kids to Catholic school! I have absolutely no problem with my kids learning about Jesus, God, and religion as part of their education. Then, like me, they can make up their own mind as adults/adolescents. And I try reeeaaallly hard to play along with the whole charade. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/10 "2006-03-21T19:01:35Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Some Canadians tell me this but that doesn’t seem like Canada’s image of tolerance. I’m still having trouble wrapping my mind around this. Are you suggesting that Canada’s image of tolerance includes tolerance for pressuring children to pray to a deity whether or not they believe in it? 'Cause that doesn’t sound very tolerant to me … ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/11 "2006-03-21T19:08:36Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Some Canadians tell me this but that doesn’t seem like Canada’s image of tolerance. I presume you mean freedom to worship a Protestant Christian God, since that’s what the fuss in the US is always about. How about having an official Buddha in every classroom? (and of course evolution classes!) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/12 "2006-03-21T19:33:35Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I presume you mean freedom to worship a Protestant Christian God, since that’s what the fuss in the US is always about. > > How about having an official Buddha in every classroom? (and of course evolution classes!) First of all, the Buddha was not a god, and didn’t solicit prayer. Second, why make baseless presumptions about the OP other than to take a potshot at something that’s particularly on _your_ mind but might not be on the OP’s mind at all? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/13 "2006-03-21T20:08:47Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Well, AFAIK, the only religious public schools are Catholic. Certainly that’s the case here in Ontario. But doesn’t that make the whole question about “prayer in school” very difficult to compare between the US and Canada? In the US, there would be an absolute furor over public funds going to a Catholic school, and one of the most contoversial aspects of school “vouchers” is whether or not they can be used to attend religious schools. So, by US standards I would have to say that no, school sanctioned prayer is not illegal in Canada-- if I had either answer only yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/14 "2006-03-21T20:32:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Alot of provinces have 2 public school systems; 1 secular, 1 Roman Catholic. Until the late 90s Quebec and Newfoundland didn’t even have secular schools. Quebec had a Catholic school system and a Protestant school system. Newfoundland had 3 or 4 differect school systems. Both Quebec and Newfoundland still have religious education in their schools (Quebec seems to be abolishing this). You are correct (at least for Québec). We had Catholic and Protestant school boards (as guaranteed by the Canadian constitution) until 1998, when they were abolished and replaced by language-based (French and English) school boards by virtue of a constitutional amendment. (Even beforehand religious education classes weren’t compulsory in public schools; I took a secular moral education class in 6th grade instead of the Catholic religious education class.) The government of Québec then used the notwithstanding clause of the Canadian constitution to ensure that schools still offered Catholic and Protestant religious education classes, as well as secular moral education classes. This application of the notwithstanding clause ended last June, and many secular groups urged the government not to renew it and instead create a new religious studies class where students would learn about the world’s major religions. The government finally decided to renew the clause for three years, after which the current religious classes will be retired and replaced by this new religious studies class. I think it’s a good idea; even though I went to a private Catholic high school that required us to take Catholic religious education, this was the format our Secondary 5 class took and it was a great class. This said, even in high school, we never had any kind of prayer in class. We had to take the religious education classes, and we knew that old priests were still living inside the school, but that was all the “Catholic” content I had in high school. This was from 1993 to 1998. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/15 "2006-03-21T20:40:19Z")
From [this Ontario Ministry of Education document (pdf)](http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/resource/ecu93105.pdf) > [@](#): > > As part of this process of modification, on September 23,1988, the Ontario Court of Appeal struck down subsection 28(1) of Regulation 262 concerning religious opening or closing exercises in public elementary schools. The general import of the court’s decision was that, in opening or closing exercises in public schools, one religion must not be given a position of primacy > … > The following content requirements have been provided by the amended regulation: > > 1. The content of opening or closing exercises, except for “O Canada”, is optional for > public school boards. > 2. Such optional content may include any or all of the following > – “God Save the Queen” > > - one or more readings > - a period of silence > > 1. Where readings are included, they are to impart social, moral, or spiritual values, > and should be chosen from scriptural and/or secular writings representative of our > multicultural, multifaith society.g > 2. The readings may include prayers, including the Lord’s Prayer. No prayer, including > the Lord’s Prayer, however, maybe used exclusively or given a position of primacy. > 3. As with many other parts of the school program, parents/guardians of pupils, as > well as adult pupils, may apply to the principal for exemption from opening or > closing exercises. > > The regulation allows school boards to include in opening or closing exercises > readings from either scriptural or secular writings, or both. There is, however, strong > reason to support the inclusion of readings from both scriptural and secular writings > representative of our multicultural society. Exclusion of either kind of readings would > remove from student consideration a rich source of human experience in the realm of > social, moral, and spiritual development. As far as I can tell this remains the current stand of the Ontario government with respect to opening/closing ceremonies at elementary and secondary public schools (Policy/Program Memorandum No. 108) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/16 "2006-03-21T21:33:58Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Some Canadians tell me this but that doesn’t seem like Canada’s image of tolerance. It’s not illegal, but you won’t find it in public schools anymore because we’re a mulicultural society. Tolerance? Having institutionalized prayer in public schools does not foster tolerance. I still remember a little girl named Nina, who was in my grade four class in 1979. Nina’s family was Jehovah’s Witness, and she was excluded and vilified by her classmates because of it. She was singled out because she was required by the tenets of her faith to excuse herself while the rest of us recited the Lord’s Prayer each morning. I was just going through the family albums a couple of days ago, and was filled with shame when I looked at my grade four class photo. My nine-year-old self had scratched her face out with a penny. I never knew anything about her except that she was “other.” Even in in that picture, defaced as it was, you could see that she was _miserable_ – and I was a part of her persecution. As was _every other person in the class_. She had no friends at all. To show any kindness to her was to open yourself up to similar abuse. There were almost thirty kids in that class, and we all contributed to making her childhood a nightmare. How did that happen? School prayer, which I can guarantee you did _nothing_ significant in the way of enriching us spiritually. It just gave our juvenile mob mentality a target to attack. Take that out of the equation, and you have _more_ tolerance. We would have had the opportunity to get to know a little girl as a person, instead of having her singled out as the alien in our midst on the first day of school. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/17 "2006-03-21T22:50:48Z")
To be fair, kids are nasty to each other with or without school prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/18 "2006-03-21T23:22:54Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > To be fair, kids are nasty to each other with or without school prayer. Absolutely, but having a reminder every morning from the first day of school onward that some kids are different from the majority focuses that tendency like a laser beam. It’s difficult enough to keep kids from singling out the ones with conspicuous differences (like economic status, physical attributes, race, etc) without drawing attention to subtle religious differences that have no reason to be put under a microscope in class. The _only_ thing that painted a target on that kid was that she didn’t recite the Lord’s Prayer with the rest of us. There were probably more kids there that weren’t Christian, anyway, and just went through a Christian ritual anyway, because that’s what everyone else did. Why draw attention to the fact that you’re Jewish, or Buddhist, or non-religious, or whatever, when the result at that age is frequently unpleasant? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/19 "2006-03-22T02:37:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > First of all, the Buddha was not a god, and didn’t solicit prayer. Second, why make baseless presumptions about the OP other than to take a potshot at something that’s particularly on _your_ mind but might not be on the OP’s mind at all? Did I say the Buddha was a God? I objected to the OP’s assumption that making school prayer illegal wasn’t tolerant. I further thought it was a safe bet that this is an attitude based on a US Protestant Christian God. Here in England we do have an official State religion, but we don’t have official school prayer. Perhaps I shouldn’t have brought evolution in so early, but I find it scary that religious fundamentalists want to impose their religious beliefs onto science. That’s far worse than being intolerant of school prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274/20 "2006-03-22T02:45:24Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Did I say the Buddha was a God? > > I objected to the OP’s assumption that making school prayer illegal wasn’t tolerant. > I further thought it was a safe bet that this is an attitude based on a US Protestant Christian God. Here in England we do have an official State religion, but we don’t have official school prayer. > > Perhaps I shouldn’t have brought evolution in so early, but I find it scary that religious fundamentalists want to impose their religious beliefs onto science. > That’s far worse than being intolerant of school prayer. It’s also turning this into a Great Debate – not a horrible idea, but I’d love to hear from Canadians how the interaction between the religion-based public schools and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms works out in practice in Canada, before we get into debating any religion vs. education issues on a more general basis for the dozenth time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-school-prayer-illegal-in-canada/349274.md?page=2)