# Is Scientology as f\*\*ked up as FX leads me to believe? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899 "2006-10-10T04:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/21 "2006-10-10T23:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Yeah, but at least Christianity has multiple branches to choose from-Scientology really doesn’t. [/QUOTE] That is the official line of the CoS, yes, but it is not true. [There are groups of people, collectively known as the “Free Zone” or “Free Zone Scientologists”, who practice the teachings of Hubbard outside the CoS.](http://www.fzaoint.net/): > [@](#): > > This site is not in any way connected with the Church of Scientology. It is about Freezone Scientology. That is Scientology (and Dianetics) as practiced by persons who believe in the workability of the spiritual technology (auditing) developed by L. Ron Hubbard, but who wish to follow those beliefs free from the purview of the Church of Scientology. Also: [Free Zone America](http://www.freezoneamerica.org/) [The Free Zone in Germany](http://www.freezone.org/) [And on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_%28Scientology%29) > [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m waiting…nay, salivating…for the day someone comes on the SDMB and says just one thing that can be construed as positive about Scientology. I like a public execution as much, if not more, that the next poster. Didn’t you read my post? I said that Scientology (the religion) is no better or worse than any other religion, such as Christianity, or Judaism, or Buddhism, and so on. If you want someone to defend the CoS around here, keep waiting: There simply aren’t that many CoS freaks around, especially these days. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/22 "2006-10-10T23:29:32Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] 3a. Someone shows up and says all religions are bad and the Scientologists aren’t any worse than other religions. [/QUOTE] I missed this the first time. Scientology in and of itself is just another bizarre religious story, with the same potential for harm if taken too seriously. The CoS, however, is a criminal cult that has absolutely no business existing on this planet. Groups are not religions are not groups. A cult is a group and is defined by its abusive behavior, not its beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/23 "2006-10-10T23:30:47Z")
I think it’s telling that it’s considered OK to shit on this “religion” and its followers on the SDMB but if you do the same to Islam and its followers…watch out!! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/24 "2006-10-11T00:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] I missed this the first time. Scientology in and of itself is just another bizarre religious story, with the same potential for harm if taken too seriously. The CoS, however, is a criminal cult that has absolutely no business existing on this planet. Groups are not religions are not groups. A cult is a group and is defined by its abusive behavior, not its beliefs. [/QUOTE] I agree with you. I’m just saying that’s usually the next line in the scientology debates. Someone brings up theatans and the next person talks about what they consider crazy about other religions. You can’t read something like this about new mothers and not think they’ve all lost their minds. “On the baby, perhaps the best thing is _no_ processing for three days. Then talk to the baby, tell the newcomer he or she is welcome, then make friends. Various things can be done – touch assist is best. Even the birth engram can be run but that’s a little adventurous in a lot of cases.” [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/f6427787a2b548ac?output=gplain](http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/f6427787a2b548ac?output=gplain) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/25 "2006-10-11T00:16:44Z")
It’s not so much their beliefs, which while pretty out there, aren’t in and of themselves cause for alarm. It’s their approach to medicine, (especially psychological), their practices and the way they isolate anyone who joins. Some of the treatments for illnesses they prescribe can be deadly. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/26 "2006-10-11T00:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] It’s not so much their beliefs, which while pretty out there, aren’t in and of themselves cause for alarm. It’s their approach to medicine, (especially psychological), their practices and the way they isolate anyone who joins. Some of the treatments for illnesses they prescribe can be deadly. [/QUOTE] Can’t this also be said for Christianity? I could pick and choose my Christians and show lots of Christian Scientists who believe in praying instead of using antibiotics. The world’s biggest Christian denomination, Roman Catholicism, actively works to prevent people from using condoms, resulting in thousands, if not millions, of deaths due to AIDS, syphilis, et al. I would wager the RCC’s policy on condoms has killed more people than there are Scientologists. The main difference between Scientology and Catholicism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism or what have you is that Scientology is newer and less popular. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/27 "2006-10-11T02:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=Spiny Norman] Almost immediately Nip/Tuck - produced on the Paramount lot - sink their teeth into CoS. [/QUOTE] I thought I read an article that _Nip/Tuck_ was doing a pro-Scientology episode? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/28 "2006-10-11T03:17:35Z")
I just saw the previews for Boston Legal next week and they will have a case where someone fires an employee because they are a scientologist. So I wonder what their spin on it will be? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/29 "2006-10-11T03:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=Stinkpalm] I think it’s telling that it’s considered OK to shit on this “religion” and its followers on the SDMB but if you do the same to Islam and its followers…watch out!! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Islam is based on ludicrous myths. A significant minority of its adherents are murderous psychos. _ **watching out** _ ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/30 "2006-10-11T13:48:41Z")
My question is, does the average Scientologist actually believe the entire history of the aliens and what not, or are they smart enough to know that is bulljive, but remain members because they find some aspect of the practical teachings to be helpful? Sort of like, you can be a Chrisitian without believing some of the wilder aspects of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/31 "2006-10-11T14:06:51Z")
[QUOTE=Stinkpalm] I think it’s telling that it’s considered OK to shit on this “religion” and its followers on the SDMB but if you do the same to Islam and its followers…watch out!! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] As OneCentStamp has aptly demonstrated, the issue is sweeping generalizations about the people involved in the religion or factually incorrect statements about beliefs–it’s perfectly fine, so far as I can tell, to insult both the religion itself AND any defined group of practitioners who demonstratably carries the traits you wish to assign them. It’s this last part that seems to get people in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/32 "2006-10-11T14:36:32Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] My question is, does the average Scientologist actually believe the entire history of the aliens and what not, or are they smart enough to know that is bulljive, but remain members because they find some aspect of the practical teachings to be helpful? Sort of like, you can be a Chrisitian without believing some of the wilder aspects of the Bible. [/QUOTE] Generally the average, lower ranking members aren’t told the whole alien story. They save the really bizarre stuff until you’re trustworthy/have given them large amounts of cash. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/33 "2006-10-11T20:54:22Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Can’t this also be said for Christianity? I could pick and choose my Christians and show lots of Christian Scientists who believe in praying instead of using antibiotics. The world’s biggest Christian denomination, Roman Catholicism, actively works to prevent people from using condoms, resulting in thousands, if not millions, of deaths due to AIDS, syphilis, et al. I would wager the RCC’s policy on condoms has killed more people than there are Scientologists. The main difference between Scientology and Catholicism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism or what have you is that Scientology is newer and less popular. [/QUOTE] Actually, I would say that the main difference is that the leaders of Scientology do not actually believe in Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/34 "2006-10-12T00:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] 3a. Someone shows up and says all religions are bad and the Scientologists aren’t any worse than other religions. [/QUOTE] Damn, you beat me to it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/35 "2006-10-12T16:23:52Z")
The big problem with Scientology; it makes very clear, explicit claims. the main one is; if you invest $200,000, and achieve the state of “clear”, you willbe a genius, happy and successful. This just doesn’t happen. In fact, Scientolgy has destroyed lots of lives. As for religions; most make claims that are NOT verifiable. but, as mentioned, they don’t (usually) turn you into a pauper in the process of becoming a member. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/36 "2006-10-13T03:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=flight] Actually, I would say that the main difference is that the leaders of Scientology do not actually believe in Scientology. [/QUOTE] We don’t really know that that’s true - we have good evidence L. Ron Hubbard didn’t believe in it, but he’s as dead as a doornail, and it’s perfectly possible his successors do. Besides, anyone really think Jim Bakker was much of a Christian? I’m no fan of Scientology, but why do the other cults get a pass? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/37 "2006-10-13T03:28:58Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] We don’t really know that that’s true - we have good evidence L. Ron Hubbard didn’t believe in it, but he’s as dead as a doornail, and it’s perfectly possible his successors do. Besides, anyone really think Jim Bakker was much of a Christian? I’m no fan of Scientology, but why do the other cults get a pass? [/QUOTE] The CoS has money, is fairly long-lived as cults go (it has survived the death of its founder), and it manages to convince celebs that the CoS is the place to be. It has avoided being destroyed through what I can only describe as animal cunning on an organizational level. What other group could have pulled off Operation Snow White and gotten away with it? It is slowly fading into irrelevance (as the constant unpunished media mocking shows) but it is not dying off especially quickly. Most importantly, it has a genuine PR department: The corporate tentacles of the CoS, including Narconon, all look bland and normal enough to be legit. The impediance mismatch between the official corporate look and the leaked Xenu story make for great TV, and the specter of the perfect amoral corporation managing it all gives the story that extra push. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/38 "2006-10-13T03:46:43Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] We don’t really know that that’s true - we have good evidence L. Ron Hubbard didn’t believe in it, but he’s as dead as a doornail, and it’s perfectly possible his successors do. Besides, anyone really think Jim Bakker was much of a Christian? I’m no fan of Scientology, but why do the other cults get a pass? [/QUOTE] They don’t. What other cults do you think “get a pass?” ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/39 "2006-10-13T15:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] I still think South Park gave the best rip on Scientology [Trapped in the Closet (South Park) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapped_in_the_Closet_(South_Park_episode)) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Xt4CKgaJA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Xt4CKgaJA) The whole part where they describe Scientology with the banner over it “THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE” is priceless. [/QUOTE] “But… I’m not IN the closet, Nicole.” [QUOTE=Derleth] Most importantly, it has a genuine PR department: The corporate tentacles of the CoS, including Narconon, all look bland and normal enough to be legit. [/QUOTE] Wait, wait - Narconon? As in, Narcotics Anonymous? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899/40 "2006-10-13T15:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] “But… I’m not IN the closet, Nicole.” Wait, wait - Narconon? As in, Narcotics Anonymous? [/QUOTE] No, it’s a separate Scieno run organization. They deliberately chose a similiar name, hoping people would associate the two of them. Typical sleaze from the clams. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scientology-as-f-ked-up-as-fx-leads-me-to-believe/375899.md?page=3)