# Is Scooter a first?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 3, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311 "2007-07-03T02:21:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/1 "2007-07-03T02:21:09Z")
There’s already [thread=427249]a GD thread[/thread] on the Libby matter and I’m sure a pit thread as well. I’m not looking for a debate, only some answers. Of course, Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, which isn’t quite the same thing. And presidents have pardoned and commuted the sentences of many people, often for political reasons. But has it happened before that a president has commuted the sentence of someone whose crime was committed during that president’s term, as in the Libby case?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/2 "2007-07-03T03:02:41Z")
[Dan Rostenkowski](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski) (D-IL) pled guilty to mail fraud in 1996 (he was indicted in 1994). Clinton pardoned him in 2001. He served 15 months of a 17 month sentence before he was pardoned.
That was just off the top of my head. There must be many others.
Hmmm. Not sure if the crime itself happened while Clinton was prez, though.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/3 "2007-07-03T03:11:53Z")
OK, here’s a good one that is actually somewhat comparable. [Henry Cisneros](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cisneros):
> [@](#):
>
> Cisneros was nominated by President Bill Clinton to serve as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate. He was sworn into office by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist on January 22, 1993. During his term, he reformed the public housing system, and successfully resisted efforts to substantially reduce or wholly eliminate the Department. Citing the needs of his family, he resigned as Secretary in January, 1997 while under a cloud of personal and political scandal.
>
> [edit] Independent Counsel’s investigation
>
> In March 1995, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno secured the appointment of an Independent Counsel, David Barrett to investigate allegations that Cisneros had lied to FBI investigators during background checks prior to being named Secretary of HUD. He had been asked about payments that he had made to former mistress Linda Medlar, also known as Linda Jones. The affair had been ‘public knowledge’ for a number of years - during the 1992 presidential campaign, U.S. Treasurer Catalina Vasquez Villalpando publicly referred to Cisneros and candidate Clinton as “two skirt-chasers” - but Cisneros lied about the amount of money he had paid to Medlar. The investigation continued for three and a half years. In December, 1997, Cisneros was indicted on 18 counts of conspiracy, giving false statements and obstruction of Justice. Medlar used some of the Cisneros hush money to purchase a house and entered into a bank fraud scheme with her sister and brother-in-law to conceal the source of the money. In January, 1998, Medlar pleaded guilty to 28 charges of bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud and obstruction of justice. In September, 1999, Cisneros negotiated a plea agreement, under which he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of lying to the FBI, and was fined $10,000. He did not receive jail-time or probation. He was pardoned by President Bill Clinton in January 2001.
Someone from his administration, guilty of lying to the FBI, although the plea was for a misdemeanor offense.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/4 "2007-07-03T15:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=Julius Henry]
But has it happened before that a president has commuted the sentence of someone whose crime was committed during that president’s term, as in the Libby case?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, many, many times–beginning with George Washington, who pardoned rebels who participated in the [Whiskey Rebellion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) during his administration.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/5 "2007-07-03T15:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig]
Yes, many, many times–beginning with George Washington, who pardoned rebels who participated in the [Whiskey Rebellion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) during his administration.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, the good ol’ days, when there were things like a Whiskey Rebellion! 🙂
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/6 "2007-07-03T16:27:23Z")
See congressman [Mel Reynolds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Reynolds). Convicted in '95, started serving, further convicted of 15 more counts a year before the release date of the first conviction, sentence commuted '01.
And this is NOT a “Clinton did it, too” post, just that you don’t need to look very far back (1) to find a president who has pardoned people convicted during their presidency.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/7 "2007-07-03T16:32:49Z")
A very appropriate comparison is former CIA Director John Deutch.
After leaving his post, it was discovered that he was grossly negligent in safeguarding classified material, even keeping it on his unclassified laptop. An investigation never got very far, and he was pardoned by Bill Clinton on his last day in office.
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### Author:  [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/8 "2007-07-04T02:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=Julius Henry]
There’s already [thread=427249]a GD thread[/thread] on the Libby matter and I’m sure a pit thread as well. I’m not looking for a debate, only some answers. Of course, Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, which isn’t quite the same thing. And presidents have pardoned and commuted the sentences of many people, often for political reasons. But has it happened before that a president has commuted the sentence of someone whose crime was committed during that president’s term, as in the Libby case?
[/QUOTE]
Libby had his sentence commuted but was not pardoned, of course (so far).
Is this your question: Has there been a case where a President commuted a sentence before any time was served?
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/9 "2007-07-04T02:56:49Z")
Ummm, yes, Clinton administration was full of this kind of thing. AND full of federal attorney firings as well, much moreso than Bush. Good christ peeps.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/10 "2007-07-04T03:02:31Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper]
Ummm, yes, Clinton administration was full of this kind of thing. AND full of federal attorney firings as well, much moreso than Bush. Good christ peeps.
[/QUOTE]
Some cites would not be out of place here.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/11 "2007-07-04T03:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=Frank]
Some cites would not be out of place here.
[/QUOTE]
Sigh. Come on. Read, think for yourself. I’m not talking about obscure stuff here, good christ, [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardons_controversy) is your easily accessed friend.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/12 "2007-07-04T03:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper]
Sigh. Come on. Read, think for yourself. I’m not talking about obscure stuff here, good christ, [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardons_controversy) is your easily accessed friend.
[/QUOTE]
Well, as far as I can tell, the FALN pardoned had already served at least 19 years in prison. The commutations cited were all on Clinton’s last day in office. (Which, frankly, I fully expected Bush to pardon Libby on the former’s last day in office - such is life.) I see no commutations in that link for a member of Clinton’s administration for a crime committed while working for Clinton as President.
Also, oddly enough, I see no reference there for a mid-term defenstration of Attorneys General. Go figure.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/13 "2007-07-04T20:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=Frank]
Also, oddly enough, I see no reference there for a mid-term defenstration of Attorneys General. Go figure.
[/QUOTE]
Go figure what? You, an appointed SDMB Moderator, I am to take by the hand and wiki or google a history of the Clinton firings of Attorneys Generals? That I call odd. Are you being disingenuous or merely facetious? Meh, nothing personal mate, don’t give me another “personal insult” warning for responding in like candor, [here’s](http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/25836/print) the first I came up with, the rest you can do for yourself if you are sincerely ignorant of same.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/14 "2007-07-04T21:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper]
Are you being disingenuous or merely facetious?
[/QUOTE]
You are being disingenuous. All of Clinton’s US Attorney firings came at the beginning of his first term, when every President does it. To compare the Bush firings is a deliberate attempt to mislead.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/15 "2007-07-04T21:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
You are being disingenuous. All of Clinton’s US Attorney firings came at the beginning of his first term, when every President does it. To compare the Bush firings is a deliberate attempt to mislead.
[/QUOTE]
Did you even read my link?
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/16 "2007-07-04T21:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper]
Did you even read my link?
[/QUOTE]
Yes I did. I did not draw the same conclusion. Like here:
> [@](#):
>
> The list shows that in 1981, Reagan’s first year in office, 71 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys. In 1993, Clinton’s first year, 80 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys.
71, 80, what’s the difference? They were all at the beginning of the first term. I don’t see your point.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/17 "2007-07-04T21:52:07Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
I don’t see your point.
[/QUOTE]
Which is _precisely_ my point.
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### Author:  [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/18 "2007-07-04T22:29:05Z")
Bush Senior pardoned former Secretary of Defense, Casper Weinburger, the C.I.A.’s Duane Claridge and others in 1992 for thier Iran Contra Roles [mostly they were indicted on several felony counts of lying to the Iran-Contra independent counsel during its investigation]
Bush was not President when the TOWs went to Iran but he was VP - and some of the lying took place while he was President.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/19 "2007-07-04T22:50:27Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper]
Which is _precisely_ my point.
[/QUOTE]
Then enlighten me.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2007, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scooter-a-first/410311/20 "2007-07-06T03:40:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Then enlighten me.
[/QUOTE]
Hello, HeLLO, [HELLO!](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288194,00.html) Goddamn.
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