# Is Scott Brown judging Elizabeth Warren solely on the color of her skin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 26, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858 "2012-09-26T05:12:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/41 "2012-09-26T16:23:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If I accused you of being a child molester, could you prove that you aren’t? How would you go about doing that? Exactly. Certain posters seem to think that she is factually a liar just because of the fact that Scott Brown called her a liar. That seems to be enough for proof of guilt to them I guess. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/42 "2012-09-26T16:25:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > How about as a white girl growing up in a state that was the (forced) homeland of the Cherokee tribe a hundred-odd years ago. I’ve seen estimates that half of the Oklahoma population has SOME Cherokee blood. > > And you still have to provide evidence that she got hired by Harvard for it. Blood is irrelevant. What did she hope to have in common with other native Americans? What was it about her background did she think she would share with them? “Hey, remember that relative that you never met that had high cheekbones? Me too!” End of conversation. I’m really not sure what she hoped to accomplish by publicly announcing her heritage. Like I said, I realized as a teenager that my supposed native American heritage meant absolutely nothing to anybody, and I had the good sense to drop it before I offended anyone. As others in this thread have pointed it, not everyone has that good sense. Warren certainly didn’t. It just strikes me as a sign of cultural ignorance. I’m not sure why I need to provide evidence that she got hired because of her claim, since I haven’t said anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/43 "2012-09-26T16:37:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > In fact, I remember one time in college one friend, who was a Lakota, started to tell another about being part Native American and the Lakota girl suddenly raised her hand and said “Let me guess, you had a grandmother or great-grandmother who was part-Cherokee.” > > The first girl was flabbergasted and said “how did you know?” > > Becky said, “because that’s what they always say. It’s never a grandfather, the grandmother or great-grandmother is always ‘part’ and they’re always Cherokee never anything else.” My wife spent some time working for the Smithsonian as one of their liaisons for the native American tribes while the Smithsonian was building the Museum of the American Indian. She said that part of the reason so many people claim Cherokee membership is because traditionally the Cherokee tribe has been very liberal in who they allow to claim membership (versus tribes with strict blood percentage quotas). This often caused some eye-rolling among the other tribes but, ultimately, if the Cherokee nation wants to say someone 1/32nd or 1/64th or whatever counts as “Cherokee”, that’s their call and I don’t see who has reason to say that person doesn’t really count. (I’m speaking generally, I have no idea what – if anything – Warren has ever done to establish Cherokee membership) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/44 "2012-09-26T16:40:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Exactly. Certain posters seem to think that she is factually a liar just because of the fact that Scott Brown called her a liar. That seems to be enough for proof of guilt to them I guess. No, seriously. If I say you’re a child molester, how would you go about proving that you aren’t? What would be your defense against what I’ve said? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/45 "2012-09-26T16:42:07Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Blood is irrelevant. What did she hope to have in common with other native Americans? What was it about her background did she think she would share with them? Who cares? If she’s interested, it’s her business and she doesn’t have to justify an interest. I do think it’s sort of amusing that she’s being criticized by different people for claiming NA heritage while having no involvement in the culture and also for attempting to get involved in the culture despite minimal heritage. 😉 > [@](#): > > I’m not sure why I need to provide evidence that she got hired because of her claim, since I haven’t said anything of the sort. **Debaser** did (not that he’s the first person to make it). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/46 "2012-09-26T16:48:16Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, seriously. If I say you’re a child molester, how would you go about proving that you aren’t? What would be your defense against what I’ve said? You might get a better response if you just make your point using the child molester as an analogy instead of trying to play Perry Mason. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/47 "2012-09-26T16:49:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > This often caused some eye-rolling among the other tribes but, ultimately, if the Cherokee nation wants to say someone 1/32nd or 1/64th or whatever counts as “Cherokee”, that’s their call and I don’t see who has reason to say that person doesn’t really count. Do you really not know the answer to this question? If anyone is allowed to claim Cherokee heritage that waters down the legitimate heritage that the other tribes have meticulously been maintaining. The result of this is having scores of Cherokee applicants with questionable or non existent claims to their heritage applying to Universities and for Government contracts and Casino licenses. This might prevent someone who is a real Lakota who was raised in [Pine Ridge Reservation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation) from getting those benefits. ETA: Note that I’m not claiming that this is the case currently. But, I can certainly understand why other Native American groups would have these fears. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/48 "2012-09-26T16:51:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In fairness to Scott Brown, in fact it does NOT appear that he is judging Warren by her skin color. [ > [@](#): > > Brown began the debate by saying Warren “checked the box claiming she is Native American, and clearly she is not.” ]([http://www.wcvb.com/news/politics/Scott-Brown-Eliabeth-Warren-faceoff-in-1st-debate-for-U-S-Senate-seat/-/9848766/16683432/-/r2puts/-/index.html](http://www.wcvb.com/news/politics/Scott-Brown-Eliabeth-Warren-faceoff-in-1st-debate-for-U-S-Senate-seat/-/9848766/16683432/-/r2puts/-/index.html))What else could “clearly” imply? > [@DoctorJ](#): > > “Clearly, Professor Warren is not wearing a feathered headdress, nor is she carrying a tomahawk, and not once in this debate has she made a ‘war cry’ by yelling and flapping her hand over her mouth.” [But his own staffers are.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/09/25/video_scott_brown_staffer_does_tomahawk_chop_to_mock_elizabeth_warren_.html) Warren’s from Oklahoma. _Of course_ she has some Indian ancestry. Duh. And no, you can’t tell by appearances. My wife is one-quarter Oklahoma Choctaw, for instance, and she and some of her sibs look as German as I do. Other sibs look pureblood. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/49 "2012-09-26T16:56:11Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, seriously. If I say you’re a child molester, how would you go about proving that you aren’t? What would be your defense against what I’ve said? Why are you asking me? Shouldn’t you be asking Debaser and Magellan01? They are the ones claiming that she is a liar with nothing to back it up. To answer your question though, I wouldn’t be able to defend myself if you didn’t offer any proof of your claim that I could attempt to disprove, could I? But again, without any proof your claim should be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/50 "2012-09-26T16:59:46Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You might get a better response if you just make your point using the child molester as an analogy instead of trying to play Perry Mason. I appreciate your concern about my questioning style and welcome further insights that are utterly unrelated to the point. They add color, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/51 "2012-09-26T17:00:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Debaser** did (not that he’s the first person to make it). I did. I admit there is no “smoking gun” documentation yet uncovered that they made the hiring decision based on the directory, but there is enough evidence to come to that conclusion. Warren has refused to release her Harvard personnel records which would answer this question, which speaks volumes. Instead she points to statements made by those who made her hiring decision. Here are some more details about the situation at Harvard when she was hired: > [@](#): > > In a 1994 interview, then-Harvard Law School dean Robert Clark said his institution was actively applying an affirmative action policy to hiring female faculty Warren was hired in 1992. > [@](#): > > In 1991, Rutgers Professor Phillip Schuchman reviewed Warren’s co-authored 1989 book “As We Forgive Our Debtors: Bankruptcy and Consumer Credit in America” in the pages of the Rutgers Law Review, a publication Warren once edited. Schuchman found “serious errors” which result in “grossly mistaken functions and comparisons.” > [@](#): > > “We’re clearly trying to add more women to the faculty,” Clark told the Harvard Law Record in March 1994. > > “Clark said HLS was engaging ‘affirmative action’ to the extent it was working to increase the number of women considered and interviewed,” > [@](#): > > Warren … is the only law school professor there who did not graduate from a top-ten law school. Of the 350 Ivy League law school professors, Warren graduated from the second worst ranked school — Rutgers, ranked no. 82 > [@](#): > > Clark had been feeling pressure. In 1992, positive tenure decisions about four white male faculty members touched off student protests and demonstrations which included taking over the dean’s office. > > Warren’s first tenure offer in February 1993 coincided with a Friday vigil held by law students demanding more female and minority professors. [The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/10/harvard-law-dean-cited-affirmative-action-in-1993-elizabeth-warren-hiring-academic-qualifications-questioned-in-1990/) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/52 "2012-09-26T17:03:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > To answer your question though, I wouldn’t be able to defend myself if you didn’t offer any proof of your claim that I could attempt to disprove, could I? You’re right. It would be difficult. In fact, it would be completely impossible. > [@](#): > > But again, without any proof your claim should be ignored. Oh, but I do have proof. It’s an old family story. I’d bring out a witness, but unfortunately the children all died (really tragic school bus accident). Now, prove my family story is wrong. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/53 "2012-09-26T17:06:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [But his own staffers are.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/09/25/video_scott_brown_staffer_does_tomahawk_chop_to_mock_elizabeth_warren_.html) I love that the entire crowd in that video breaks out into a “Yankee’s Suck” chant. You really can’t get more than a dozen Massholes into a group without that occurring, regardless of any other circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/54 "2012-09-26T17:07:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You’re right. It would be difficult. In fact, it would be completely impossible. > Oh, but I do have proof. It’s an old family story. I’d bring out a witness, but unfortunately the children all died (really tragic school bus accident). > > Now, prove my family story is wrong. Can you? Who are you arguing with? You seem to be making a point that you can’t just accuse someone of something without any evidence (child molestation), which is exactly what I’m saying, but then you also seem to be disagreeing with me somehow in some confusing way. Can you just tell us what point you are making please? I honestly can’t tell exactly what you’re trying to say based on your … arguments so far. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/55 "2012-09-26T17:08:14Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I admit there is no “smoking gun” documentation yet uncovered that they made the hiring decision based on the directory, but there is enough evidence to come to that conclusion. If one has already decided what conclusion one wants, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/56 "2012-09-26T17:11:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I appreciate your concern about my questioning style and welcome further insights that are utterly unrelated to the point. They add color, somehow. Since no one can tell what your point is, it’s hard to make sure our comments are related. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/57 "2012-09-26T17:16:11Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Who are you arguing with? You seem to be making a point that you can’t just accuse someone of something without any evidence (child molestation), which is exactly what I’m saying, but then you also seem to be disagreeing with me somehow in some confusing way. Can you just tell us what point you are making please? I honestly can’t tell exactly what you’re trying to say based on your … arguments so far. Actually I’m not making a point here, you’re making the point for me. Let’s back up and look at what you’ve said. [QUOTE=Airbeck] I wouldn’t be able to defend myself if you didn’t offer any proof of your claim that I could attempt to disprove, could I? [/quote] Warren “accused” herself of having Native American heritage. Others have asserted it isn’t true, but since Warren never offered any proof of her claim, there’s no way the claim can be proven. So it’s her responsibility to prove what she said. [QUOTE=Airbeck] But again, without any proof your claim should be ignored. [/quote] So you’re saying that Warren’s claim… which, like mine, is based on an old family story… should be ignored? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/58 "2012-09-26T17:20:44Z")
Protip: when you have to type things like “accused” herself, you’ve lost the argument. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/59 "2012-09-26T17:22:40Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I love that the entire crowd in that video breaks out into a “Yankee’s Suck” chant. You really can’t get more than a dozen Massholes into a group without that occurring, regardless of any other circumstances. Actually, listening to it more closely, that is “Cherokees suck” being chanted. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858/60 "2012-09-26T17:38:59Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Protip: when you have to type things like “accused” herself, you’ve lost the argument. Protip: when you have to preface your comment by ‘protip’, it’s just a half-assed opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-scott-brown-judging-elizabeth-warren-solely-on-the-color-of-her-skin/635858.md?page=4)