# Is Secession Treason?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-secession-treason/511405>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [September 24, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-secession-treason/511405 "2009-09-24T18:45:22Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\
**Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-secession-treason/511405/61 "2009-09-25T18:56:27Z")

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> [@wmfellows](#):
>
> Well, it seems to me that many are confusing the moral question of treason with the technical act of treason. Treason is not always “wrong” in a global moral perspective.

I agree completely–as well as pointing out that any successful secession gives us two points of view for treason–that of the former nation, and that of the new nation.

Also, we need to be careful not to confuse the ability to achieve factual independence, which is a question of politics or military power, with the legal right to independence under the laws of the former nation. That’s why I think we should try to be careful not to just use the definition of secession you point to, which is how many people understand it today,

> [@wmfellows](#):
>
> Breaking away in an “illegal” fashion would have been secession under I think the ordinary sense of the word, secession from a Sovereign authority.

without being clear if we mean simply getting away, or getting away “legally.” (as I posted earlier, James Buchanan would call the first revolution and the second secession).

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**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\
**Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-secession-treason/511405/62 "2009-09-25T19:11:56Z")

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If I recall correctly, in the novel _Shogun_, James Clavell has one of his characters assert that there is no possible justification for treason - unless you win.

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**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\
**Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-secession-treason/511405/63 "2009-09-25T19:39:51Z")

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Arnold was also motivated by anger for being passed over for promotion and other slights. He did it more out of pique than principle and was not well accepted in England.

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