# Is Seinfeld less offensive than Friends seen with today's eyes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [April 28, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626 "2022-04-28T22:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/41 "2022-04-29T18:55:55Z")
Seinfeld had a bad incident in 1995 when actor Danny Hoch objected to his character’s Hispanic stereotype. Jerry and Larry weren’t budging, Julia-Louise was supportive, and Michael’s workaround suggestion was that if he couldn’t play the part, just play an actor who could play the part. Hoch was replaced with a Hispanic actor who did dial back the ethnic stereotype while amplifying it’s zaniness instead ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/42 "2022-04-29T19:13:53Z")
Is that the one where the cat got out? ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/43 "2022-04-29T19:22:18Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I remember the masturbation episode getting some flack back in the day. Sure, some people may have busted a nut over it and tossed off an angry ejaculation or two, but it was over pretty quickly. I mean, different strokes for different folks. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/44 "2022-04-29T19:27:16Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Is that the one where the cat got out? [The Pool Guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pool_Guy) S7E8 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/45 "2022-04-29T19:33:04Z")
I was thinking of this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xqkC812onnk/hqdefault.jpg "Seinfeld Clip - George And The Busboy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkC812onnk) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/46 "2022-04-29T20:09:04Z")
I think the Seinfeld characters had an awareness of their lack of diversity at times, though. I’m thinking of the episode where Elaine thinks the man she’s dating might be a light-skinned black guy, but she can’t figure out how to ask him. In the meantime, he thinks she’s probably Hispanic. Then something causes them to broach the subject of being an interracial couple, they realize they’re both just a couple of white people, then they go to The Gap. And the show is very heavy on the Jewish humor, although I suspect a lot of that went over the head of a lot of viewers. I particularly like the episode where they impersonate another airline passenger because they saw him get bumped from the flight and they want to take his limo but the passenger was a notorious Neo-Nazi and they find themselves being taken to speak at a big Nazi rally. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/47 "2022-04-29T20:15:56Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The show was by and for white people, there are no characters who aren’t white and while the show had astronomical ratings among whites, it had minuscule ratings among Black Americans. That’s kind of normal for back then. I remember someone in the early 1990s saying The Simpsons and Monday Night Football were the only shows that were in the top 10 of both black and white households. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/48 "2022-04-29T20:22:00Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I don’t know if _Seinfeld_ was considered more offensive. IMHO it had slightly more edge. I tried to watch _Friends_, but it was just so manufactured sit-commy and the characters were annoying, so I can’t add much else. My feelings exactly. I loved _Seinfeld_ (and still occasionally watch it). I have very little experience of _Friends_ beyond maybe having seen part of one or two episodes. It struck me as a blatant ripoff of the basic setup in _Seinfeld_, its first season starting not long after _Seinfeld_ really took off in the ratings, except not funny and with unlikable characters. I noticed that some posters described the characters in Seinfeld as terrible people – I regarded them more as comically eccentric. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/49 "2022-04-29T20:32:54Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > The cast of my show will be pretty white with a Black and Hispanic character or two in recurring roles. An occasional gay character was well. IIRC, the only black recurring character in Seinfeld is Jackie Chiles, who made his first appearance in Season 7. I wonder if they created the character due to some of the flack the show was getting for not being diverse enough for the NYC set show. I’m trying to remember if there was a Hispanic recurring character. I think the super was Hispanic, but was only in one ep? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/50 "2022-04-29T20:35:18Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I’m trying to remember if there was a Hispanic recurring character. Kramer was always mentioning his friend Lomez… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/51 "2022-04-29T20:39:56Z")
I have heard a lot about how Friends was homophobic and I have to ask, how? Carol and Susans relationship is never shown as anything but valid and while Ross dislikes it, its shown as him being unhappy with the divorce, rather than homophobic. The Chandler is gay episode is more about how his perception of him being gay hurts his dating prospects, not because its a bad thing. Plus as I recall one of the co-creators was gay. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/52 "2022-04-29T21:20:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > My feelings exactly. I loved _Seinfeld_ (and still occasionally watch it). I have very little experience of _Friends_ beyond maybe having seen part of one or two episodes. It struck me as a blatant ripoff of the basic setup in _Seinfeld_ , its first season starting not long after _Seinfeld_ really took off in the ratings, except not funny and with unlikable characters. I noticed that some posters described the characters in Seinfeld as terrible people – I regarded them more as comically eccentric. Yes, this describes my reactions almost exactly. As I remember, Ellen DeGeneres’s sitcom (that was originally called _These Friends of Mine_ IIRC) was the first Seinfeld clone. _Friends_ came just a smidge later and seemed even more clone-y…but watered down for a wider audience. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/53 "2022-04-29T21:32:12Z")
Seems a strange comparison to me. One of Seinfeld’s big lessons was “no hugging, no learning”, whereas Friends was the exact opposite - with numerous long running romantic relationships between the characters. Aside from being set in Manhattan, they really weren’t anything alike. Ensemble shows isn’t something that Seinfeld created. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/54 "2022-04-29T21:37:59Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Seems a strange comparison to me … Aside from being set in Manhattan, they really weren’t anything alike. > **[10 Things Friends Took From Seinfeld](https://screenrant.com/elements-friends-took-from-seinfeld/)** > > Friends has a bigger group, but it's basically Seinfeld 2.0, when you look at all the similarities. > **[What are the major things FRIENDS copied from Seinfeld?](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-major-things-FRIENDS-copied-from-Seinfeld)** > > Answer (1 of 11): Adding to Sankalp Parihar and Suman Anand's answers: > > 1. FRIENDS copied Seinfeld straight from the word go: A group of friends living in New York City who constantly hang out at a coffee shop! > 2. The title of every episode starts... ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/55 "2022-04-29T23:20:21Z")
That Screenrant one may be the most superficial list ever: kooky characters and troublesome neighbors, lol ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/56 "2022-04-30T11:35:34Z")
Most, if not all, of the jokes in Friends that are called homophobic are jokes that are playing off of the characters insecurity. They are the butt of the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/57 "2022-04-30T14:02:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > That Screenrant one may be the most superficial list ever: kooky characters and troublesome neighbors, lol Kramer was just another “wacky neighbor” that barges into the house/apartment. Been done a million times before. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/58 "2022-04-30T19:17:50Z")
That is what is going on there. Hardly worth characterizing the entire show as homophobic because of that kind of thing. I don’t recall thinking of either show as offensive when they were on, and I don’t see that actually changing. They are both reminders of how times have changed, and it’s good to know how the world has changed, so sometimes we have to look back on retouched pictures. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/59 "2022-04-30T20:04:10Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > IIRC, the only black recurring character in Seinfeld is Jackie Chiles, who made his first appearance in Season 7. I wonder if they created the character due to some of the flack the show was getting for not being diverse enough for the NYC set show. > > I’m trying to remember if there was a Hispanic recurring character. I think the super was Hispanic, but was only in one ep? I vaguely recall another Black character who was a coworker of Elaine or George’s boss or manager at some point. Maybe someone who worked for Mr. Steinbrenner when George was working for the Yankees? I looked it up and the character I remember is, Mr. Morgan, who also worked for Steinbrenner during George’s time with the Yankees. > **[Mr. Morgan](https://seinfeld.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Morgan)** > > Mr. Morgan was a co-worker of George's at Yankee Stadium. His first name is never revealed, so he is always called Mr. Morgan, or just Morgan. Morgan is portrayed by Tom Wright. Morgan appeared in four episodes, "The Pledge Drive", where George... ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626/60 "2022-05-01T20:40:33Z")
And there’s an episode where George goes to farcical lengths to pretend he has a black friend, to impress Mr Morgan; the ‘whiteness’ of Seinfeld is made into a plot point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-seinfeld-less-offensive-than-friends-seen-with-todays-eyes/963626.md?page=4)