# Is sex between a mother and daughter still incest? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 23, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546 "2016-10-23T23:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/21 "2016-10-24T03:19:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My thoughts are _“Of course it’s incest. Any sex between a parent and child is incest, regardless of the gender.”_ Exactly. OK law concerning incest includes: “between ancestors and descendants of any degree”. Whether it should be illegal is a separate question. But in the state of OK it currently is. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/22 "2016-10-24T03:35:18Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Yes, for the same reason that sex between a teacher and pupil will get the teacher sacked. Undue influence, power differential, the inability of the kid to have a normal life. Exactly. This is one time I have no problem at all judging two adults screwing in the privacy of their own home. There is no way this isn’t manifested abuse and there is no way this person was not warped into thinking this is what she wants. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/23 "2016-10-24T03:44:10Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > But assuming the pupil has graduated and is no longer in the school system, at least most places I know of, that sex or a marriage is absolutely legal. Heck, I can name 4 teachers still in the classrooms who married former students. > > So to complicate my last reply (and in my own mind): does it make a difference if the child has been out of the house and on their own for a period of time? Once you’ve left the school system, your teacher is no longer in a position of power over you - they’re your former teacher. Your parent never becomes your former parent - they have at least emotional and social power over you forever, even when you are over 18 and they have no legal power. Getting free of a controlling parent-child relationship is multiple orders of magnitude more difficult than getting free of a controlling teacher-student relationship. The social good, in terms of preventing abusers from grooming their own children for sex, from drawing a bright line in the sand and saying “no, this relationship can never be allowed” seems pretty straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/24 "2016-10-24T04:24:18Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Serious question: I think we call all agree that it’s _ewwwww_. > > But should it be illegal? > > If so, why? I’d say that society, as a whole, has an interest in the way children are raised because these children will become a part of society. And as individuals, children have a right to grow up in the kind of environment where they will learn how to become functioning members of society. So both from the point of view of society and of the individual child, we have a right to set standards on parenting. And, in my personal opinion, I don’t see how a functional parent/child relationship can encompass sex between the parent and the child. To me, the existence of sex shows the relationship is dysfunctional. And I don’t see any age at which you can stop being a parent or a child and switch to being a sex partner. If that seems like an acceptable option, than the parent/child relationship didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/25 "2016-10-24T04:38:10Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Slight hijack, but it is from the OP’s article > > How or why would someone’s name be removed from a birth certificate? I could see someone losing parental rights but they are still the biological parent; what circumstances would get someone’s name removed from the birth certificate? Adoption. Which suggests that these two did not have a mother-daughter relationship with a power differential necessary to make this exploitative. > [@kopek](#): > > But assuming the pupil has graduated and is no longer in the school system, at least most places I know of, that sex or a marriage is absolutely legal. Heck, I can name 4 teachers still in the classrooms who married former students. I know one former student who married a teacher. She had been out of high school for more than ten years, and he had become the principal in the interim. I knew her in high school. She had a very strong personality, and there was no way she was manipulated-- if anything, she manipulated him. They have two kids, and have been together for 15 years. Seems to be working. I never particularly liked her, and it was a first marriage for him, in his forties, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/26 "2016-10-24T11:06:41Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Adoption. Which suggests that these two did not have a mother-daughter relationship with a power differential necessary to make this exploitative. Maybe. Relative adoptions can be odd. Sometimes the kid grows up thinking his mother is his sister and other times nothing changes except the legalities. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/27 "2016-10-24T12:48:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Terrific](#): > > What are your thoughts? Sex is still sex even if no penis is involved. Sex is not just about reproduction and in fact most sex does not result in another person. Sex between parent and child is incest. Therefore sex between mother and daughter is still incest. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/28 "2016-10-24T13:43:18Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Why is Homeland Security, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement involved in this case? The accused may be despicable but that doesn’t seem to involve national security or immigration. It sounds like the whole thing was a Homeland Security/ICE sting in the first place, which explains why they are involved, but I don’t know why they are the agencies doing it rather than the FBI or local police or whatever… ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/29 "2016-10-24T14:01:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Exactly. This is one time I have no problem at all judging two adults screwing in the privacy of their own home. There is no way this isn’t manifested abuse and there is no way this person was not warped into thinking this is what she wants. I think it would be wise to prove that they were brainwashed into something they wouldn’t otherwise want though before writing such laws. I mean people in general are kind of f\*\*\*ed up in many ways anyhow, what would we define as “warped”, how should it be applied? …Just because others don’t like it? Against religion? Against how we were taught? We will never really know exactly what this girl wanted and I stated before her kids likely were being “fed” a different way of thinking so to speak but I don’t have any right to force that judgement since that girl may be otherwise perfectly normal and is what she wanted regardless? She certainly has a smirk in her mug shot. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/30 "2016-10-24T14:04:56Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Why is Homeland Security, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement involved in this case? Perhaps it is related to the case where certain religious people, who worship bottle nosed dolphins who live forever, were bringing baby sea gulls into the state as offerings. As part of the ritual, they would carry the baby gulls across a line of carefully trained lions, who were so heavily fed that they remained indifferent as the sea gulls were brought over. The religious folks were charged with violations of the Mann Act - transporting young gulls across staid lions for immortal porpoises. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/31 "2016-10-24T14:13:00Z")
If the mother and daughter are having sex, then yes, it would be incest. But I’m not confident that the story provided here is incest. The article says that the woman did not raise the children and the woman claimed that she was not on her children’s birth certificate. If I had to wager a guess, I would say that this woman no longer has any sort of legal say in her children’s lives (maybe cannot visit them while they’re in the hospital, add them on insurance, that sort of thing), and marrying them may be her way of getting some sort of legal say again. Particularly when you consider that she also married another child previously. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/32 "2016-10-24T15:32:11Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > If the mother and daughter are having sex, then yes, it would be incest. But I’m not confident that the story provided here is incest. The article says that the woman did not raise the children and the woman claimed that she was not on her children’s birth certificate. If I had to wager a guess, I would say that this woman no longer has any sort of legal say in her children’s lives (maybe cannot visit them while they’re in the hospital, add them on insurance, that sort of thing), and marrying them may be her way of getting some sort of legal say again. Particularly when you consider that she also married another child previously. This is exactly what I was thinking. It’s the kind of story where you read it, and think “wow, I hope this is a story about insurance fraud.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/33 "2016-10-24T15:32:29Z")
The article says that they have _both_ been booked and jailed. Which one is the guilty party, who has the crime been committed against, and who exactly is the law supposed to be protecting here? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/34 "2016-10-24T16:37:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The article says that they have _both_ been booked and jailed. Which one is the guilty party, who has the crime been committed against, and who exactly is the law supposed to be protecting here? Both, society, and probably all of us? Just a wild guess but its the best I have right now. I think in this particular case the crime was mutual and we’re partly protecting them from each other but this one looks to be more clearly (than some I can imagine) a crime against the good of society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/35 "2016-10-24T17:05:57Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Both, society, and probably all of us? Just a wild guess but its the best I have right now. I think in this particular case the crime was mutual and we’re partly protecting them from each other but this one looks to be more clearly (than some I can imagine) a crime against the good of society as a whole. Well, since no malformed kids are going to come out of the deal, I fail to see how society has been bettered by their arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/36 "2016-10-24T18:28:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, since no malformed kids are going to come out of the deal, I fail to see how society has been bettered by their arrest. Maybe it’s a reputational thing for the state. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/37 "2016-10-24T18:54:01Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Both, society, and probably all of us? Just a wild guess but its the best I have right now. I think in this particular case the crime was mutual and we’re partly protecting them from each other but this one looks to be more clearly (than some I can imagine) a crime against the good of society as a whole. Isn’t this akin to locking up homosexuals for gay sex (consenting adults, that is?) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/38 "2016-10-24T22:27:34Z")
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think incest between consenting adults is a crime. But a certain close familial relationship may be grounds for annulling a marriage, provided at least one of the parties involved consents to the annulment. Questions could arise according to state marriage laws, though, as to whether such a marriage would be held to be valid and legally binding. Not likely to become an issue unless somebody contests it with a suit. Marriages are generally held to be what couples say they are, unless some litigant disputes it. Police don’t turn over rocks looking for bigamy, common-law or incest in relationships. In short, incest has made the leap from a statutory crime to a social taboo. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/39 "2016-10-25T01:19:43Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think incest between consenting adults is a crime. > > In short, incest has made the leap from a statutory crime to a social taboo. Incest is still a crime in New York regardless of consent. You’re correct that police don’t turn over rocks looking for it- but that’s true of many crimes. Most crimes come to the attention of the police because someone reported it- possibly a third party, but someone. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546/40 "2016-10-25T01:28:15Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Losing custody doesn’t do it, and neither does termination of parental rights, but in an adoption, the records are amended and a new certificate is issued. The grandparents who raised her must have also adopted her. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Adoption. Looks at the banner. Thanks! > [@Shodan](#): > > The religious folks were charged with violations of the Mann Act - transporting young gulls across staid lions for immortal porpoises. Get. Out! NOW! :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sex-between-a-mother-and-daughter-still-incest/769546.md?page=3)