# Is Shaun King (Daily Kos writer & Black Lives Matter activist) really white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271 "2015-08-19T16:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/421 "2015-08-22T16:48:48Z")
No odder than an absolute belief that Shaun King and his mother are lying liars who lie. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/422 "2015-08-22T16:50:11Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > **Omar Little** starts a thread asking if Shaun King is actually white, instead of biracial, then he posts pictures of him as a child and points out that he looked white (which isn’t a surprise, since he’s a fair-skinned adult), and you’re saying he’s not using those pictures as evidence that he’s white? No, I’m claiming it doesn’t meet the original criteria I asked about: - I’m not sure why some people seem to find it hard to believe that you can look really white but have close black relatives.\* Just saying someone looks white is not even in the same ballpark as that. If anything, it’s evidence of people NOT saying that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/423 "2015-08-22T16:53:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **No.** > > There is no way to lie on a birth certificate. The parent listed as the father is the legal parent, and has **nothing to do with who provided the sperm**. Whether or not her husband knew at the time that he was not the biological father is entirely irrelevant. > > Your attempts to paint the woman as a liar are, frankly, bizarre. Lying about who the father is can be fraud. If, for example, she applied for welfare benefits. In any case, 1. The father is Jeffery W. King. 2. The father is another unnamed dude. Both cannot be true. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/424 "2015-08-22T16:58:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, I’m claiming it doesn’t meet the original criteria I asked about: > > - I’m not sure why some people seem to find it hard to believe that you can look really white but have close black relatives.\* > > Just saying someone looks white is not even in the same ballpark as that. If anything, it’s evidence of people NOT saying that. You asked if anyone in the thread said you couldn’t look white, but have close black relatives, in other words, be biracial. Shaun King claims to be biracial. **Omar Little** doesn’t believe him, because he looked white as a child. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/425 "2015-08-22T17:09:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > That’s an odd belief. Not really. There is no biological information or “about” on her blog, no pictures, no personal info of any kind, no city of residence listed, no credentials, no information at all about “Vicki Page”. I don’t believe that she is a real person at all, because there is no evidence that she exists other than the blog. Clearly someone is posting, but there is no supporting evidence at all to indicate that “Vicki Page” exists at all. Shaun King, OTOH, is clearly a real person. I tend to believe actual people rather than purported people. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/426 "2015-08-22T17:11:25Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > **Omar Little** starts a thread asking if Shaun King is actually white, instead of biracial, then he posts pictures of him as a child and points out that he looked white (which isn’t a surprise, since he’s a fair-skinned adult), and you’re saying he’s not using those pictures as evidence that he’s white? It should be noted if most of the African-American posters on this site showed their pictures as newborns many of the white people would assume the person in the picture was “white” because the melanin doesn’t set in for a few days. Also as you note light-skinned blacks as children probably do look “white”. I’d be beyond shocked if Thurgood Marshall at five or six didn’t look much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/427 "2015-08-22T17:12:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Lying about who the father is can be fraud. If, for example, she applied for welfare benefits. That would be a prosecutable offense? Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/428 "2015-08-22T17:21:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Lying about who the father is can be fraud. If, for example, she applied for welfare benefits. > > In any case, > > 1. The father is Jeffery W. King. > 2. The father is another unnamed dude. > > Both cannot be true. Yes they can. If Mr. King accepted the child as his own, he’s the _legal_ father. The _biological_ father could be an unnamed dude. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/429 "2015-08-22T17:32:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That would be a prosecutable offense? Do you have a cite for that? “Welfare fraud is intentional misuse of state welfare systems by withholding information or giving false or inaccurate information.” > **[Welfare fraud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_fraud)** > > Welfare fraud is the act of illegally using state welfare systems by knowingly withholding or giving information to obtain more funds than would otherwise be allocated. > This article deals with welfare fraud in various countries of the world, and includes many social benefit programs such as food assistance, housing, unemployment benefits, Social Security, disability, and medical. Each country's problems and programs are varied. > Obtaining reliable evidence of welfare fraud is notoriously difficu... Welfare fraud can be a felony. [http://wane.com/2015/08/20/mother-charged-with-welfare-fraud-illegally-received-25000/](http://wane.com/2015/08/20/mother-charged-with-welfare-fraud-illegally-received-25000/) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/430 "2015-08-22T17:41:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Yes they can. > If Mr. King accepted the child as his own, he’s the _legal_ father. > The _biological_ father could be an unnamed dude. Nope. She lied to the nurse/aide/hospital administrator shortly after childbirth OR she lied to Shaun later. Pick one. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/431 "2015-08-22T17:43:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nope. > > She lied to the nurse/aide/hospital administrator shortly after childbirth OR she lied to Shaun later. > > Pick one. Nope. No lies told. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/432 "2015-08-22T17:54:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nope. > > She lied to the nurse/aide/hospital administrator shortly after childbirth OR she lied to Shaun later. > > Pick one. I seriously can’t tell if you’re just fucking with me now. Are multiple meanings of the word “father” confusing you? She did not and _could not have_ lied on the birth certificate. She provided to the hospital the name of the child’s legal father. In no sense is that a claim, implicit or explicit, that he was the child’s _biological_ father. Whoever goes on the birth certificate does so by choice, and is the child’s legal father. The welfare fraud thing is so far from relevance I can’t even see it from here. Red herring is red and herring-like. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/433 "2015-08-22T17:58:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nope. > > She lied to the nurse/aide/hospital administrator shortly after childbirth OR she lied to Shaun later. > > Pick one. Or of course, Kentucky like many states is one of those which openly labels the husband of a married woman to be the father. Beyond that, let’s say you’re correct, which is a more likely lie. That she would lie to the Nurse’s aide while her husband was standing next to her or that she would tell her son that she’d had an affair when she hadn’t? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/434 "2015-08-22T18:17:11Z")
> [@andros](#): > > She did not and _could not have_ lied on the birth certificate. She provided to the hospital the name of the child’s legal father. The hospital doesn’t ask “who is the legal father.” They ask who is the baby’s father. It IS implicit that they mean the baby’s biological father. Recording births, including parentage, isn’t some wacky new idea. It’s been going on throughout recorded history. I’m not an Egyptologist, but I’d wager there are hieroglyphics about it. There are chapters of the Bible dedicated to the “begats.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/435 "2015-08-22T18:21:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Or of course, Kentucky like many states is one of those which openly labels the husband of a married woman to be the father. You’ve mentioned this before. Are we certain that was the law or custom in KY circa 1979? > [@](#): > > Beyond that, let’s say you’re correct, which is a more likely lie. That she would lie to the Nurse’s aide while her husband was standing next to her or that she would tell her son that she’d had an affair when she hadn’t? Definitely, that she lied to the nurse’s aide. It doesn’t make her trustworthy, though. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/436 "2015-08-22T18:25:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The hospital doesn’t ask “who is the legal father.” They ask who is the baby’s father. It IS implicit that they mean the baby’s biological father. > > Recording births, including parentage, isn’t some wacky new idea. It’s been going on throughout recorded history. I’m not an Egyptologist, but I’d wager there are hieroglyphics about it. There are chapters of the Bible dedicated to the “begats.” [From here.](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/living-together-book/chapter7-4.html) > [@](#): > > The best way to establish the father’s paternity is by naming him on the baby’s birth certificate.\*\* Under U.S. Department of Health and Human Services regulations, all states must offer unwed parents an opportunity to establish paternity by voluntarily signing an acknowledgment of paternity,\*\* either at the hospital or at a later time. In many states, as a result of political pressure to reduce the number of mothers on welfare by ensuring that there is someone else with an obligation to support the child, hospital personnel will make every effort to get the father to sign the acknowledgment. They don’t care about biology, only that someone takes responsibility for future support. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/437 "2015-08-22T18:43:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [From here.](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/living-together-book/chapter7-4.html) > They don’t care about biology, only that someone takes responsibility for future support. I think someone already noted this earlier, but generally if a woman is married when she gives birth, her husband is presumed to be the father unless there is a specific effort made by the parents to name someone else as the biological father. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/438 "2015-08-22T18:56:05Z")
And he still has to be present and consent to be listed as the father. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/439 "2015-08-22T19:00:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Also as you note light-skinned blacks as children probably do look “white”. > > I’d be beyond shocked if Thurgood Marshall at five or six didn’t look much the same. I think [you’re right](http://cp91279.biography.com/1000509261001/1000509261001_1873457518001_Thurgood-Marshall-Early-Life.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/440 "2015-08-22T19:03:13Z")
Check out the legal definitions: [**Legal Definition of ‘Father’ by State**](http://family.findlaw.com/paternity/legal-definition-of-father-by-state.html) While there isn’t a uniform legal definition of “father” in state statutes across the country, many states have definitions for different categories of fathers, including “putative father” and “presumed father.” Depending on what category you fall into, you may have different rights and responsibilities regarding the child and may need to follow certain procedures to establish paternity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271.md?page=23)