# Is Shaun King (Daily Kos writer & Black Lives Matter activist) really white? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271 "2015-08-19T16:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/621 "2015-09-14T14:14:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Is it wrong that I really hope he gets thrown in with members of The Nation of Islam? Yes. Even assuming that we should be in favor of prison violence, I think it’s pretty clear that Goldberg is mentally disturbed and ought to be in a psychiatric facility rather than a prison. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Find some “white nationalists” who are not white supremacists. Let’s hear from them. Randy Weaver (the Ruby Ridge) guy always took pains to point out that he was a white _separatist_ rather than a white supremacist. He didn’t think other races were inferior, just that race-mixing was wrong. You can certainly question his sincerity, since he used to hang out at the Aryan Nations compound, but he still says that’s what he believed even though he’s now abandoned his white separatist beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/622 "2015-09-14T14:34:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most white people in America are more closely genetically related to certain black Americans than various other far-flung “white” people in Europe and elsewhere. There are “black” populations in Africa that are far more closely related to Europeans and Asians than to various other far-flung “black” populations in other parts of Africa. What does this post mean? Is he saying that some white folks are more closely related to descendents of west Africa than other Euros? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/623 "2015-09-14T16:22:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > What does this post mean? Is he saying that some white folks are more closely related to descendents of west Africa than other Euros? Tons of white folks are in fact descendants of African people (among others), and most black Americans also have white ancestry. So there are lots of white people closer to some black people than to certain other white people and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/624 "2015-09-14T16:31:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve indicated pretty clearly in various posts that you consider white people superior. As to your claims about race, they are denied in your own links (the criticism in your wikipedia link) and others posted in response. Most white people in America are more closely genetically related to certain black Americans than various other far-flung “white” people in Europe and elsewhere. There are “black” populations in Africa that are far more closely related to Europeans and Asians than to various other far-flung “black” populations in other parts of Africa. This isn’t true. From the link: > [@](#): > > In the 2007 paper “Genetic Similarities Within and Between Human Populations”,[20] Witherspoon et al. attempt to answer the question, “How often is a pair of individuals from one population genetically more dissimilar than two individuals chosen from two different populations?”. The answer depends on the number of polymorphisms used to define that dissimilarity, and the populations being compared. When they analysed three geographically distinct populations (European, African and East Asian) and measured genetic similarity over many thousands of loci, the answer to their question was “never”. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Find some “white nationalists” who are not white supremacists. Let’s hear from them. > > At least we know that the USA is _not_ a white nation. It never has been. The original inhabitants were not white; despite all efforts to kill them off, quite a few remain. Some of the original white settlers brought black slaves–and they kept having them shipped in. And not all the immigrants have been white, despite discriminatory immigration policies. > > So, where\* do\* you white nationalists live? The United States was founded by White people on land that once belonged to other people. White people more-or-less exclusively shaped every facet of our government, and by extension, our country, for decades. White nationalists live everywhere. We’re in your cities, your suburbs, and your colleges (and also in secret volcano lairs, because we’re really evil). We won’t stop our nefarious activities until the United States is a healthier, safer, and higher-trust place to live. “Tons of White folks are in fact descendants of African people?” Yeah, [a whole 3-4% of them](http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/02/how_mixed_are_african_americans.3.html). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/625 "2015-09-14T16:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > We’re in… your colleges _snerk_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/626 "2015-09-14T16:52:29Z")
More white supremacist wrongness: > [@Construct](#): > > This isn’t true. From the link: Yes it is, when you don’t twist the data. Most people aren’t pure of any group, particularly in America. And there are plenty of populations in Africa, like the Igbo, that are closer genetically to non African groups than to certain other far flung African groups (like the San, for the Igbo). > [@](#): > > The United States was founded by White people on land that once belonged to other people. White people more-or-less exclusively shaped every facet of our government, and by extension, our country, for decades. Government, but not society. Non white people were integral to the development and evolution of American society in every phase and time. > [@](#): > > White nationalists live everywhere. We’re in your cities, your suburbs, and your colleges (and also in secret volcano lairs, because we’re really evil). We won’t stop our nefarious activities until the United States is a healthier, safer, and higher-trust place to live. And yet polling and popular opinion shows that most white Americans are repulsed by white nationalism and white supremacism. White America is really not into you. > [@](#): > > “Tons of White folks are in fact descendants of African people?” Yeah, [a whole 3-4% of them](http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/02/how_mixed_are_african_americans.3.html). So millions of white people, right? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/627 "2015-09-14T17:03:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes. Even assuming that we should be in favor of prison violence, I think it’s pretty clear that Goldberg is mentally disturbed and ought to be in a psychiatric facility rather than a prison. > > Randy Weaver (the Ruby Ridge) guy always took pains to point out that he was a white _separatist_ rather than a white supremacist. He didn’t think other races were inferior, just that race-mixing was wrong. You can certainly question his sincerity, since he used to hang out at the Aryan Nations compound, but he still says that’s what he believed even though he’s now abandoned his white separatist beliefs. As a person who lived in the area, and debated Richard Butler of the Aryan Nations in person dozens of times I can promise you that this “separate but equal” ruse was purely marketing and an attempt to “soften” their political views for mass consumption. I do not know what Randy Weavers beliefs were but the church was very much about white supremacy. Randy was just parroting the AN’s lines. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/628 "2015-09-14T17:09:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Randy Weaver (the Ruby Ridge) guy always took pains to point out that he was a white _separatist_ rather than a white supremacist. He didn’t think other races were inferior, just that race-mixing was wrong. I realize my POV is not average, but this is a distinction without a difference for my particular family! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/629 "2015-09-14T17:11:41Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > As a person who lived in the area, and debated Richard Butler of the Aryan Nations in person dozens of times I can promise you that this “separate but equal” ruse was purely marketing and an attempt to “soften” their political views for mass consumption. I do not know what Randy Weavers beliefs were but the church was very much about white supremacy. Randy was just parroting the AN’s lines. I don’t think those are AN lines. Butler was quoted publicly referring to Jews and blacks as subhuman, which makes it pretty hard for him to have argued that he just wanted to live apart from other races. Plus, you know, Sig Heil. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/630 "2015-09-14T17:41:05Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > We won’t stop our nefarious activities until the United States is a healthier, safer, and higher-trust place to live. Y’all are leaving? 'Cause that would do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/631 "2015-09-14T17:42:17Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > …The United States was founded by White people on land that once belonged to other people. White people more-or-less exclusively shaped every facet of our government, and by extension, our country, for decades. > > White nationalists live everywhere. We’re in your cities, your suburbs, and your colleges (and also in secret volcano lairs, because we’re really evil). We won’t stop our nefarious activities until the United States is a healthier, safer, and higher-trust place to live. > > “Tons of White folks are in fact descendants of African people?” Yeah, [a whole 3-4% of them](http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/02/how_mixed_are_african_americans.3.html). So, describe your “activities”. By the way, you’re not as stealthy as you think. The Battle Flags & Swastikas give you away. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/632 "2015-09-14T17:45:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think those are AN lines. Butler was quoted publicly referring to Jews and blacks as subhuman, which makes it pretty hard for him to have argued that he just wanted to live apart from other races. Plus, you know, Sig Heil. The AN was not a neo-nazi movement, it was part of the Christian Identity movement which is the belief that europeans are the direct descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. IIRC they believe that the Jews and other races are descendants of Cain. It is how they justify their white supremacy and antisemitism. The Aryan Nations view was never popular for news media and they focused on the small Neo-Nazism segment which would attend their parades etc…but their claim that they were against race mixing was purely based around the belief that whites were gods chosen people. They would claim to not “hate” non-europeans, and that they were following gods will but it was just a thin thin veil covering traditional racism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/633 "2015-09-14T18:17:23Z")
Butler’s closest liuetenants were all neo-Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/634 "2015-09-14T18:17:25Z")
A cite from the Aryan Nations website, I have placed the link under a spoiler tag to reduce the number of hits they get. I lived in Coeur d’Alene Idaho at the time of ruby ridge, it was pure ugliness on all parties count and a shameful time in history for america but Randy Weaver and the whole CI movement was not innocuous or friendly to other races. > [@](#): > > WE BELIEVE in the preservation of our Race, individually and collectively, as a people as demanded and directed by Yahweh. We believe our Racial Nation has a right and is under obligation to preserve itself and its members. > > WE BELIEVE that Adam, man of Genesis, is the placing of the White Race upon this earth. Not all races descend from Adam. Adam is the father of the White Race only. (Adam in the original Hebrew is translated: “to show blood in the face; turn rosy.”) Genesis 5:1 > [@](#): > > WE BELIEVE that there are literal children of Satan in the world today. These children are the descendants of Cain, who was a result of Eve’s original sin, her physical seduction by Satan. We know that because of this sin there is a battle and a natural enmity between the children of Satan and the children of The Most High God (Yahweh). > Genesis 3:15; 1 John 3:12 > > WE BELIEVE that the Cananite Jew is the natural enemy of our Aryan (White) Race. This is attested by scripture and all secular history. The Jew is like a destroying virus that attacks our racial body to destroy our Aryan culture and the purity of our Race. Those of our Race who resist these attacks are called “chosen and faithful.” John 8:44; 1 Thessalonians 2:15; Revelations 17:14 [http://www.aryan-nation.org/aboutus.htm](http://www.aryan-nation.org/aboutus.htm) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/635 "2015-09-14T18:31:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Butler’s closest liuetenants were all neo-Nazis. Yes, Richard Butler had direct connections to “The Order” and the World Congress had lots of connections to neo-nazi groups, but the “Church of Jesus Christ Christian” which Randy Weaver had connections to was “main streamed” to help grow the movement. They professed a tolerance (if you can call the doctrine in my previous post as tolerance) but separation from the other races which is a far more palatable idea to sell to new recruits like Weaver. And this is why he described his beliefs in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/636 "2015-09-14T21:21:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More white supremacist wrongness: > > Yes it is, when you don’t twist the data. Most people aren’t pure of any group, particularly in America. And there are plenty of populations in Africa, like the Igbo, that are closer genetically to non African groups than to certain other far flung African groups (like the San, for the Igbo). > > Government, but not society. Non white people were integral to the development and evolution of American society in every phase and time. > > And yet polling and popular opinion shows that most white Americans are repulsed by white nationalism and white supremacism. White America is really not into you. > > So millions of white people, right? Actually, non-Hispanic whites comprise about 62% of the population, and if we assume 96% of them are pure Europeans, that means a minimum 59.52% of the American population is of pure ancestry, a clear majority. So you’re wrong. Moreover, the link provided clearly states that for no African people sampled were they more closely related to a non-African person than an African person. You’re wrong about that, too. Most Americans reject white nationalism. Yet at the same time, implicit bias tests indicate that almost all Americans, including those who are explicitly anti-racist, have prejudiced preferences. Almost all Americans are racists. They just deny it. Millions of white people, sure: about 9 million, as an upper estimate. But that’s not “tons of White folk”, like you claimed. It’s a very small amount, again around 3-4%. So you’re wrong again. > [@Miller](#): > > Y’all are leaving? 'Cause that would do the trick. If there was an actual Anglo-American white ethnostate, a lot of people would leave. But there isn’t, because progressives have determined in their infinite universalism that every White country needs diversity. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/637 "2015-09-14T21:56:03Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > If there was an actual Anglo-American white ethnostate, a lot of people would leave. But there isn’t, because progressives have determined in their infinite universalism that every White country needs diversity. I like how, in your mind, “Voted out of every representative democracy in the world,” is translated into, “Progressives won’t let it happen.” _People_ won’t let it happen, because people, no matter where they live, find your politics repulsive. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/638 "2015-09-14T21:59:01Z")
Yes, please refrain from lumping conservatives, classical liberals, moderates, and other non-progressives in with your racial separatist ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/639 "2015-09-14T22:18:26Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > The United States was founded by White people on land that once belonged to other people. Wow, what a great example of the use of passive voice to deflect responsibility. “Once belonged to other people.” Wow. Again. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271/640 "2015-09-14T22:22:21Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > Actually, non-Hispanic whites comprise about 62% of the population, and if we assume 96% of them are pure Europeans, that means a minimum 59.52% of the American population is of pure ancestry, a clear majority. So you’re wrong. How about the 54% of all “Hispanics” in the U.S. self-identify as white? (American FactFinder, 2007 American Community Survey, table B03002.) Like any other “race” designation “Hispanic” is fully arbitrary, and on an official level the only thing that makes you hispanic is if you self-identify as such. Science is not on your side, the fact that we can find a tiny number of differences that can map someone to some origin ignores the massive number of genetic material that is exactly the same. The claim above, that someone may be more closely related to someone from Africa as from Western Europe is still valid outside of extremely rare mutations that are for the most part genetically insignificant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shaun-king-daily-kos-writer-black-lives-matter-activist-really-white/728271.md?page=33)