# Is Shodan more retarded lately, or has he maintained a consistent level of retardation all along? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530 "2012-01-24T20:31:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/281 "2012-01-26T19:34:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There once was a guy who tried to use his credentials as a psychologist to sound smart and intimidating. > > It didn’t work. > > Regards, > Shodan It may be scary at first, but just try taking your hat off. You may just find that people do like you, if you take the risk of letting them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/282 "2012-01-26T19:39:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Woah, woah, woah–“collectively”? We’re not a collective, as evidenced by the lack of your assimilation. I made no claim about “collectively.” In fact I think I said there are idiots on the left around here. You’re making a good point, and I can see where “collectively” seems a bit weaselly. Nonetheless, it’s valid. There are exceptions to everything. Generalities are still valid. If I say “Shodan is less respected on this board than John Mace”, that does not mean that there is not a single poster who respects Shodan more than John Mace. It just means that if you average everyone out, this will be the result. And then the question is why this is so (not that there is anything specific about the comparison of these two, of course). And that’s the whole point of all these Pit threads. The point is not that SenorBeef specifically has an issue with Shodan. The point is that many many others share this view, and these threads are intended as vehicles for all these people to get together and agree among themselves about just how reprehensible Shodan (or whoever the latest target is) really is. So the relevant question is not whether this or that individual poster respects some supposed conservative poster. The question is whether the widely shared (as intended to be evidenced by this thread) opinion of Shodan is the result of his political ideology or his other characteristics. So the comparison to other conservative posters is only meaningful in a collective sense. If there are other conservative posters who are collectively respected by the board, than this shows that the collective opinion of Shodan is not based on the ideology that he shares with those posters. But if the collective opinion of the board regarding any poster who shares Shodan’s ideology is similar to or on par with the opinion of Shodan, then this strongly argues for the opposite position - that it’s the ideological common link that is the issue. > [@](#): > > Assume that idiots are a pollyanna-ish 10% of the population. Assume this board is 90% lefty. That means for every right-wing idiot, there are 9 left-wing idiots. (I don’t think those numbers are right, becaues of confounding variables, but they’ll illustrate the point). > > Someone who stakes out a position might get attacked by an idiot on the other side. > > That means that if you stake out a right-wing position, you’ll get attacked by nine times as many idiots as if you stake out a left-wing position. This is true. But idiots are not identified by special labels on the SDMB, and being an idiot is not a black-and-white matter. It’s a matter of degree and is very subjective. And furthermore, the determination of who is or isn’t an idiot is itself heavily influenced by ideology. What this all means is that while there are a lot of people in this thread attacking Shodan who I would regard as idiots, and their views about Shodan have little or no value to me, many other people will regard these people as something more than idiots, and their views will be used to buttress their position (“all these people think you’re a jerk”). So while you seem to be advocating - if I understand you correctly - just ignoring the idiots and let’s look at what the normal people think, I don’t think it’s nearly as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/283 "2012-01-26T19:44:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It may be scary at first, but just try taking your hat off. You may just find that people do like you, if you take the risk of letting them. The hell of it is, I quite like **Shodan** when he’s not posting in political threads. Without the chip on his shoulder, he’s pretty witty and personable. But that chip overrides everything else in political threads. It’s depressing, really. I’ve said it a few times in the past: there’s conservatives and liberals, then there’s anti-liberals and anti-conservatives. Nothing wrong with the former two, but the latter two are high-order douchebags. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/284 "2012-01-26T19:45:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Face it - the reason - the only reason - I get called a troll and dishonest and mean and all the rest of it as much as I do boils down solely and entirely to one thing. You don’t like my politics. Just because that’s why **you** [called **me** a troll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14557221&postcount=2306) (other than to suck up to **Scylla** ) doesn’t mean it’s the reason why other people call **you** one. Not that I feel particularly bothered by being called a troll by the likes of you, because, well, it _is_ the likes of you. But if you want to try to redeem yourself to the slightest extent, feel free to go back to that thread and quote something I said in that thread that constituted trolling. You will decline this offer, I’m sure. But that’s exactly the sort of thing that gives you a bad name: a repeated accusation of trolling, backed up by…jack shit. And if there was any reason for it other than your dislike of my politics, you sure haven’t provided any. And now you take your behavior, and project it on your adversaries. Kinda like Newt Gingrich complaining about other people poisoning the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/285 "2012-01-26T19:54:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Is the goal of this place to "have some representation across the political spectrum " or to fight ignorance? Neither, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/286 "2012-01-26T20:00:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The aforementioned troll never adds anything substantive, never does anything but snark, refuses to learn anything, and refuses to debate. But he’s OK, because he is a liberal. > > But you think I do the same things, but I am not OK. Because, as mentioned, I am not a liberal. s/liberal/funny/ ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/287 "2012-01-26T20:01:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The fact remains that the active posters in GD and the Pit are at least 75% knee-jerk, lockstep liberals and a good many of the remainder are even further to the left than that. A lot of that sounds like opinion. Perhaps your perspective informs that opinion. > [@](#): > > I post reasonably - it gets ignored and people lie about how I only snark. People snark at me, and they get back a good deal more than they want in return - you people fixate on that and whine about it and complain about it > > Face it - the reason - the only reason - I get called a troll and dishonest and mean and all the rest of it as much as I do boils down solely and entirely to one thing. You don’t like my politics. I would point to John Mace. A fact centered conservative who gets argued with but doesn’t get dismissed because he will admit error. I put Bricker (and a few other conservatives) in the same category, a conservative with whom I disagree but who is fact based and recognizes when he is expressing his opinion rather than fact. You frequently get piled on by folks who view the world through a Nader shaped prism and while you are not impervious to logic and reason (and frankly there are plenty of lefties on thsi board who are), you are highly resistant to it when it does not confirm your bias. To be fair you are usually no worse than folks like martin hyde (at least that has been my impression) but you seem to have come off the rails a bit recently. I get the feeling that it is slowly dawning on you that Obama has a chance of winning reelection and its getting your blood pressure up. > [@](#): > > Regards, > Shodan This is getting pretty tired. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/288 "2012-01-26T20:02:20Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Neither, apparently. Worst hellhole you’ve ever subjected yourself to, eh? If only there were some way you and **Shodan** and the rest of the “wurst board EVAR!” brigade could escape to greener pastures… ah, well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/289 "2012-01-26T20:04:12Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > \ [absently swabs his banana] Meep? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/290 "2012-01-26T20:04:57Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I think we should _all_, every one of us, sign off with a sig line we don’t really mean. I agree. Piss off, assholes CH ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/291 "2012-01-26T20:05:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This is getting pretty tired. If you could see it as I do, it would only keep getting funnier… thanks, Greasemonkey “Replace Text”! ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/292 "2012-01-26T20:05:19Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > [absently swabs his banana] Meep? Excellent, I’m sure that’s covered in shit as well. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/293 "2012-01-26T20:05:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I post reasonably - it gets ignored and people lie about how I only snark. People snark at me, and they get back a good deal more than they want in return - you people fixate on that and whine about it and complain about it. So your behavior outlined in the OP - was that an attempt to make an argument, or snark? Ass Horn, Graded ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/294 "2012-01-26T20:06:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Worst hellhole you’ve ever subjected yourself to, eh? If only there were some way you and **Shodan** and the rest of the “wurst board EVAR!” brigade could escape to greener pastures… ah, well. It’s sort of like amateur boxing. You’re not _looking_ to get hit by the other guy, but it’s part of the game. If that happens to be the game you enjoy playing, then you’ve got to take it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/295 "2012-01-26T20:10:30Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Excellent, I’m sure that’s covered in shit as well. [sniffs banana] Wait a second… I thought this was a friendship banana. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/296 "2012-01-26T20:13:35Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’ve said it a few times in the past: there’s conservatives and liberals, then there’s anti-liberals and anti-conservatives. Nothing wrong with the former two, but the latter two are high-order douchebags. This is an excellent point. I read and post on this board for amusement. I do not find being jumped on by the antis at all amusing. Consequently, I do not post in political threads on this board, despite the fact that I enjoy discussions with the first pair you mentioned. It’s not possible to have such discussions, as long as the douchebags are around. ETA: Oops, I almost forgot… Piss off, assholes CH ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/297 "2012-01-26T20:14:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, there is. We call it the Pit. You display a lack of comprehension. The BBQ Pit is one sub-forum of this board. It’s not the only reason the SDMB exists. > [@Shodan](#): > > No, Air America went under, because not only are liberals pussies, their rants get boring after a while, even for True Believers. I’ll score this as another instance of you just not understanding even what you think you’re arguing against. > [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s just politics. No, they get pitted because they are idiots. It’s not their right wing view that gets pitted, it’s the fact that the way they claim to have arrived at the right wing view is so monumentally stupid. > [@Shodan](#): > > You think **Bricker** doesn’t get Pitted and snarked on and called names? [Whatever](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=383352&highlight=Bricker) gave you that idea? **Bricker** only gets pitted when he outright lies about something or when he pulls his “liberal hypocrisy” card out of his sleeve. He doesn’t get pitted because he proffers conservative views, unless you’re going to make the argument that “come see the liberal hypocrisy” is somehow a conservative view, instead of just a lame _tu quoque_. > [@Shodan](#): > > No, that’s the reason all right. And another instance of not being able to believe that anything that anyone says that doesn’t fit your own preconceived notions, no matter what, because then you would be wrong about something. And if you could be wrong once, you might be wrong more than once, and your world-view simply won’t allow that. > [@Shodan](#): > > I do, all the time. But you are demonstrating the reason why it doesn’t help. You apparently are incapable of reading something with which you might disagree. It’s a common flaw hereabouts - don’t read anything except when I snark, and then complain that I don’t do anything but snark. I think that you used to occasionally do that, but it’s been quite some time since I can remember reading anything from you that wasn’t dismissive, unsupported by facts and poorly reasoned, just like the quote above. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/298 "2012-01-26T20:15:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > [sniffs banana] Wait a second… I thought this was a friendship banana. ☹ It is. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/299 "2012-01-26T20:21:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Worst hellhole you’ve ever subjected yourself to, eh? If only there were some way you and **Shodan** and the rest of the “wurst board EVAR!” brigade could escape to greener pastures… ah, well. “Worst board ever”, huh? I’m sure people get tired of me asking “Did I say that?”, but “Did I say that?”. I mean, here’s a _serious_ question. Is there some kind of guidebook which lays down when and under what circumstances one should throw out a straw man? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/300 "2012-01-26T20:25:00Z")
> [@Hentor The Barbarian](#): > > As for Sam Stone, his arguments almost exclusively started with a desired conclusion and worked backwards from there. Sure, they were in a sense well-written, and given the scrutiny of a typical message board post, they sounded reasonable. However, you can only argue so long about the positive outcomes that will result from Bush’s economic policies or the dire consequences to the auto industry that Obama will cause before reality jumps in to curb stomp you. Reality does appear to have an unfairly liberal bias after all. > > On rare occasions, his posts would delve into actual fact, and he typically would misrepresent factual matters, often very badly. I don’t know if he assumed people wouldn’t bother to check, but here people do, and so it didn’t go well for him. This is the kind of crap that caused me to stop posting here. I can handle a tough debate, and I can handle a pitting. But what has been happening recently is that I would post an argument and cite it, and the following exchange would take place: Sam: Here’s my argument. \ Hentor or some other Ankle Biter: “Don’t listen to him! Sam Stone is a liar!” (or as close to saying that as he could get away with without breaking the rules in GD). Sam: You have evidence of this? Hentor: here’s a message from 2003 in which your cite didn’t match what you said! And you got smacked down in this thread, and this one, for lying. Sam: No, I didn’t. Here everyone, here’s a link to the threads in question so you can read them. Hentor: You’re wrong! Admit you lied!" Etc, ad nauseum. The problem with this is that it has _nothing_ to do with the thread or my current argument. It was pure ad-hominem attack. There is a handful of posters on this board that seemed to make it their life’s work to take everything I posted and comb the archives looking for contradictions with something I said years ago, to to build a general case that I should not be listened to regardless of what the current argument I was making happened to be. A side effect of this was that I not only had to be sure that my posts were heavily cited, but that the cites had to come from non-partisan sources, and those sources couldn’t be funded by someone who might have an interest, and the cites had to be very explicit in their support of what I was saying and I couldn’t ask people to generalize the point into a larger one, etc. A standard no one else, and certainly no one on the left on this board is ever held to. I started reporting these ad-hominem attacks when they happened, and that generated a lot of warnings to people, but I hate having to do that. And the bigger problem was that it was getting to the point where my mere entry into a thread would derail it with hijacks as it turned into a “Let’s debate Sam’s character” thread instead. Finally, the quality of argumentation around here has declined dramatically. We haven’t just lost the good conservative posters, we’ve lost the good lefties and the good moderates as well. People Like Hellestal and Stranger on a Train don’t post as frequently as they used to, and while they don’t get personally attacked, I’ll bet their other reasons are much like mine - it’s become impossible to have a serious debate here without it being drowned out in partisan noise. I’ve tried several times in the recent past to start a serious discussion about libertarian ideas, and even though my OP has begged people to stay on topic and consider the specific ideas up for debate, it usually only takes a couple of posts before someone comes in and says, “Libertarians are just people who have money and don’t care about anyone else” or some other crack like that, then the chorus dives in and hijacks the thread into another libertarian-bashing extravaganza. I’ve been trying to get this through people’s heads here for years - you let the bomb throwers run mad on a message board, and they’ll chase away the serious people until all you’ve got left is partisans throwing mud at each other. That’s what’s happening here, and the combination of the deterioration of debate and the constant personal attacks has made it just not worth my time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=16)