# Is Shodan more retarded lately, or has he maintained a consistent level of retardation all along? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530 "2012-01-24T20:31:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/621 "2012-02-02T19:08:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I started reporting these ad-hominem attacks when they happened, and that generated a lot of warnings to people, but I hate having to do that. And the bigger problem was that it was getting to the point where my mere entry into a thread would derail it with hijacks as it turned into a “Let’s debate Sam’s character” thread instead. > > Finally, the quality of argumentation around here has declined dramatically. We haven’t just lost the good conservative posters, we’ve lost the good lefties and the good moderates as well. People Like Hellestal and Stranger on a Train don’t post as frequently as they used to, and while they don’t get personally attacked, I’ll bet their other reasons are much like mine - it’s become impossible to have a serious debate here without it being drowned out in partisan noise. > > I’ve tried several times in the recent past to start a serious discussion about libertarian ideas, and even though my OP has begged people to stay on topic and consider the specific ideas up for debate, it usually only takes a couple of posts before someone comes in and says, “Libertarians are just people who have money and don’t care about anyone else” or some other crack like that, then the chorus dives in and hijacks the thread into another libertarian-bashing extravaganza. > > I’ve been trying to get this through people’s heads here for years - you let the bomb throwers run mad on a message board, and they’ll chase away the serious people until all you’ve got left is partisans throwing mud at each other. That’s what’s happening here, and the combination of the deterioration of debate and the constant personal attacks has made it just not worth my time. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are other people who had a similar experience. Regards, Debaser ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/622 "2012-02-02T19:46:48Z")
Seeing both **Sam Stone** and **Debaser** back on the SDMB is well worth being Pitted by morons. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/623 "2012-02-02T19:54:54Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if there are other people who had a similar experience. > > Regards, > Debaser Do you know what OTHER place has people with a similar experience? SOMALIA, that’s where! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/624 "2012-02-02T21:57:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Your tone is generally very even-handed. But you use overwhelming prose and misdirection to make you point. That, to me, is far worse than any invective I may inject. This. +1. QFT. And whatever other endorsements… Eddie Haskell. “One may smile and smile and be a villain.” And whatever other cultural references illustrate a similar point. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/625 "2012-02-02T23:10:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Let me ask you: Who is more likely to cause you to re-think your position on a political subject - David Brooks, or Ann Coulter? Coulter. At least she’s overtly shrill. Peddling total bunk (Mitt knows adversity because his ancestors were penniless in 1912!) in an even tone of voice doesn’t turn bunk into reasoned argument. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/626 "2012-02-03T00:09:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for being ‘thin skinned’ - frankly, any of the conservatives or libertarians who have stuck it out on this board for years have had to have a very thick skin. Why don’t you try going over to Free Republic or [Reason.com](http://Reason.com)’s comment section and try to defend your ideas there? Do it for a decade or so, while being routinely mocked, laughed at, having your arguments cherry-picked for their weaknesses while your strong points are ignored, etc. Then come back and tell me what it means to be thin-skinned. I joined here in December 1999 – that gives me more than twelve years of getting the treatment you describe. +1 from me on this point. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/627 "2012-02-03T00:14:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I joined here in December 1999 – that gives me more than twelve years of getting the treatment you describe. > > +1 from me on this point. Wah, wah, wah. This is your reason for acting like dicks, that you (perceive that you) get mistreated? So your response is to mistreat others? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/628 "2012-02-03T00:28:49Z")
I submit that the board’s conservative posters are also its least dickish…at least in the GD, Elections and Pit threads. We don’t pile on posters we conservatives disagree with, we don’t often refer to our opponents as body parts, we’re _far_ less prone to hysterical overreaction, and we generally comport ourselves in a gentlemanly fashion. YMMV. Regards, **SA** ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/629 "2012-02-03T00:29:55Z")
I’m afraid I’m going to have to echo prr’s sentiment. There’s nothing heroic about having a minority viewpoint on an internet message board (especially if you do so anonymously) and I’ve done my part to present valid thoughtful counterpoints to conservative arguments (or any arguments, really) when I thought they were merited, only to get ignored because the conservative was embroiled in an insult match with someone else, often while bemoaning the lack of serious consideration their views were receiving. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/630 "2012-02-03T00:32:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I submit that the board’s conservative posters are also its least dickish…at least in the GD, Elections and Pit threads. We don’t pile on posters we conservatives disagree with, we don’t often refer to our opponents as body parts, we’re _far_ less prone to hysterical overreaction, and we generally comport ourselves in a gentlemanly fashion. > > YMMV. > > Regards, > **SA** Are you honestly prepared to have this statement challenged? If so, I invite you to name five to ten users you consider to be “conservative posters” and I’ll see if if I can find some hysterics from any of them. I’m willing to concede Bricker - he’s less hysterical than most. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/631 "2012-02-03T00:33:25Z")
Suppose your estimate of future income in the year is somewhere between $90,000 and $110,000. What do you call that $20,000 of uncertainty? I’m not sure, but “rounding error” wouldn’t be my choice. Now your bill to one customer would normally be $2000, but that customer tells you to only bill him $1000 since the extra $1000 is irrelevant to you – it’s “less than the rounding error.” After all, you might still make $109,000 that year even if he underpays. Or make only $91,000 if he pays the correct amount. What do you think of that customer’s argument? My question is rhetorical. With one exception, I don’t think everyone here would be baffled by that argument. After all, if you get the extra $1000 and spend it on a set of tires, those are real tires – not a “rounding error.” What does this have to do with **Sam Stone** and his fatuous pomposity? In a discussion he seemed to imply that “liberal” calls to restore taxes on the rich were wrong-headed, since only a trillion dollars (in round figures) can be raised that way and a trillion dollars is just a “rounding error.” I pointed out to him that his diction was unhelpful. Future uncertainty isn’t “rounding error” and, in any event, uncertainty about tomorrow doesn’t make today’s _real_ money less real. Furthermore, one has to wonder how someone who considers a trillion dollars to be too insignificant for consideration would have anything meaningful to say about billion-dollar wastes … let alone about that taxi driver who just tried to overcharge me $10. 😃 Stone replied with some hugely long excerpts from one of his right-wing sites to substantiate his claim about future uncertainty. I responded that he’d missed the point. He then whined that his mammoth typing job had just been wasted. After all, didn’t we come here just to learn from him. 😃 Meanwhile, in another thread, he was insisting that any Doper who wanted to debate economics with him needed to watch some nine-hour video by Milton Friedmann. :rolleyes: In another thread he pulled some number out of his ass that was off (in the direction to support his argument of course) by a hundred billion or so. I called him on it … and was accused of nitpicking. I see that **Sam Stone** has a reputation for being one of the smarter right-wingers here. That just confirms the proverb _“In a village of idiots, the imbecile is King.”_ ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/632 "2012-02-03T00:50:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I submit that the board’s conservative posters are also its least dickish…at least in the GD, Elections and Pit threads. We don’t pile on posters we conservatives disagree with, we don’t often refer to our opponents as body parts, we’re _far_ less prone to hysterical overreaction, and we generally comport ourselves in a gentlemanly fashion. > > YMMV. > > Regards, > **SA** Shut up you fucking pedophile. Excusing the molestation of kids isn’t gentlemanly, you subhuman piece of garbage. You wouldn’t understand manners if they were raping a kid in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/633 "2012-02-03T00:51:55Z")
PS: Stone will probably respond to the preceding with a repetitious screed duplicating one of his previous screeds, probably with numbers that are only half-wrong. Hi, Sam! You miss the point. Nobody cares whether your numbers are off by 20%, or only 10%. I’m trying to help you with basic logic and diction. Uncertainty isn’t “rounding error.” And if you really think that a trillion dollars is “chump change” (another oh-so-erudite Stone phrase), then perhaps you should keep your “wisdom” to yourself in threads that debate spending measured in mere billions. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/634 "2012-02-03T01:56:07Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Shut up you fucking pedophile. Excusing the molestation of kids isn’t gentlemanly… Certainly not. But attempting to ascertain the exact type of molestation rather than blithely and blindly jumping to the worst possible conclusion is. Now, having said that, I’d suggest to take your hysterical rantings to one of the appropriate threads before I get busted for hijacking the thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/635 "2012-02-03T02:08:18Z")
So you acknowledge that molestation occurred, and Paterno knew about it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/636 "2012-02-03T02:37:56Z")
I’m sure you’ll understand if I don’t take the bait. I’m on a rather short leash these days when it comes to hijacks, you know. Plus, for this thread the hijack _is_ rather glaringly out of place. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/637 "2012-02-03T02:41:37Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Shut up you fucking pedophile. Wait. You put me on ignore for defending him from the charge of being a pedophile, but you haven’t put _him_ on ignore? (Just in case somebody quotes this) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/638 "2012-02-03T02:50:59Z")
So you _don’t_ acknowledge that molestation occurred, and Paterno knew about it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/639 "2012-02-03T03:17:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Suppose your estimate of future income in the year is somewhere between $90,000 and $110,000. What do you call that $20,000 of uncertainty? I’m not sure, but “rounding error” wouldn’t be my choice. It would be if you said that you were going to buy a 100 ft yacht with that difference, and I said that whether you made 90,000 or 110,00, the difference was just a rounding error in the price of a 100 ft yacht. See, it actually matters what you’re comparing that number to, doesn’t it? You have been prattling on about this for months. You need to go back and re-read that, in the context in which I said it. What I actually said was that, while 890 billion dollars over ten years is a freaking huge amount of money, in terms of fixing the U.S.'s fiscal imbalance it’s little more than a rounding error. In ten years, the U.S. will rack up probably ten trillion dollars more in debt. Its total unfunded liabilities are over 60 trillion dollars. And that’s just the federal government. The state governments have huge unfunded liabilities in their pension programs as well. Therefore, the notion that raising taxes on the top 1% will fix anything substantial is a fantasy. It’s a huge amount of money, but it’s a tiny fraction of the stupendous fiscal hole the United States is in. The numbers are factually correct. You teed off on my characterization of 890 billion dollars over 10 years as a ‘rounding error’, suggesting that it was hyperbole and an example of how I ‘twist’ things. In fact, it was just colorful language that accurately describes the point I was getting to - that you can’t come anywhere near fixing the U.S.'s financial problems with tax increases on the top 1%. In fact, I even went out of my way to point out that it was roughly the cost of Obamacare, and the Republicans who think repealing that will magically fix the economy are just as wrong as the liberals who think raising taxes on the rich will fix the problem. I didn’t need to do that, but I was trying to provide rhetorical balance - something I rarely see my opponents doing. Yet you still got so incensed by that you had to spam and derail multiple unrelated threads with commentary about it, and you’re still whining about it months later. I couldn’t ask for a better example of the crazy critiques coming from some of the left-wing members of this board. > [@](#): > > I see that **Sam Stone** has a reputation for being one of the smarter right-wingers here. That just confirms the proverb _“In a village of idiots, the imbecile is King.”_ And there you go. All the right wingers here are ‘idiots’, and I’m an imbecile. How very open minded of you. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/640 "2012-02-03T03:19:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I joined here in December 1999 – that gives me more than twelve years of getting the treatment you describe. > > +1 from me on this point. Awwwwwwwwww… ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=33)