# Is Shodan more retarded lately, or has he maintained a consistent level of retardation all along? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530 "2012-01-24T20:31:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/761 "2012-02-06T17:40:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I will take you at your word for the period April 1999 to December 1999. > > Subsequent thereto, however, I was here, and I don’t agree it was much closer to even. Somewhat closer, yes, and certainly not marred by the rancor which now exists, but even then the board leaned left. I would agree that the board has always had at least a slight lean to the left. But I’d disagree that in 2000 or 2001, the board leaned nearly as far left as it does now. Quite simply, conservatism as it was then was much more defensible than conservatism as it is now. So people were more apt to defend it, and were more able to do so in the only coin that amounts to anything here, good argument supported by facts. Now, quite frankly, there isn’t a whole hell of a lot about contemporary American conservatism that’s intellectually defensible. And those who defend parts of it successfully are pretty selective about which parts they defend. Those here who defend conservatism broadly are limited to the **Shodan** s and **Starving Artist** s of the world, because one really must be some sort of idiot to defend conservatism broadly. And that’s why the balance has changed a great deal over the past 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/762 "2012-02-06T17:42:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As an aside – even though my words may have referred specifically to this thread, why wouldn’t other threads be also relevant to show the general truth of the proposition? It’s my understanding that you offered the assertion as a rejoinder and a rebuke to **MaxTheVool** ’s admission that liberals are imperfect and outnumber conservatives round these parts. Your implication was that **Max** is hypocritical to expect your acceptance of these facts while refraining from criticism of the liberals who _in this very thread_ are denying those same facts. I’ve no doubt we can find almost any proposition defended or denied if we engage the full power of the SDMB’s awesome search function. But the specific point we’re arguing rather requires that we examine only the original parameters you claimed as evidence of anti-conservative bias. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/763 "2012-02-06T17:44:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As I said, you are a lying troll. And as I said in a recent thread, you’ve devalued ‘troll’ as a useful term. To you, it has become just another insult, to be used when ‘asshat’ and the like have lost their oomph. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/764 "2012-02-06T17:47:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you need a quote denying that the SDMB is left-leaning, from someone who does not believe that liberals are generally right? > > If such can be supplied, are you going to move the goalposts again? > > Regards, > Shodan Not really fair to **F-P** there, **Shodan**. The goalposts as originally defined are **Bricker** ’s, and the argument about whether **Elvis** ’ remark crossed the posts is mine, not **F-P** ’s. **F-P** is in agreement that the remark fails to meet **Bricker** ’s criteria, but I don’t think I see a disagreement from **F-P** with the thrust of **Bricker** ’s argument. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/765 "2012-02-06T17:49:38Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I don’t know much, actually. I figure as long as I’ve put some sort of bendy, curly things around extraneous clauses, I’ve separated them from the main statement. If I wrote all elegant like you do, you wouldn’t be able to stand me. I assumed it meant that reading that portion was optional. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/766 "2012-02-06T17:53:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think that qualifies. > > What Elvis is saying just amounts to “liberals are right”. Nothing more. He’s not denying that the board leans left. He’s just saying this is because liberals are right. Heh heh heh. So, to rebut this proposition, I’d have to find someone who denies the board leans left, and denies that liberals are correct? Why? If I’m limited to searching this thread, and only this thread, because my original claim was limited to this thread, why must I also accept a limitation that wasn’t part of my original claim? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/767 "2012-02-06T17:54:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I assumed it meant that reading that portion was optional. Maybe we need a “redacted” app for ease of reading? Blacks out anything inside a set of bendy curvy things. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/768 "2012-02-06T17:56:59Z")
What **Bricker** said. **xenophon41** asked for a cite; it was supplied; now it’s time to try to talk it away. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/769 "2012-02-06T17:59:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Heh heh heh. > > So, to rebut this proposition, I’d have to find someone who denies the board leans left, and denies that liberals are correct? > > Why? If I’m limited to searching this thread, and only this thread, because my original claim was limited to this thread, why must I also accept a limitation that wasn’t part of my original claim? You don’t have to accept any new limitations, we’re just disagreeing with your interpretation of **Elvis** ’ claim. He doesn’t appear to be denying there’s more liberals posting here; he’s claiming that’s because we’re less delusional. AIUI, it’s a riff on Colbert’s “reality has a well-known liberal bias.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/770 "2012-02-06T18:16:03Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You don’t have to accept any new limitations, we’re just disagreeing with your interpretation of **Elvis** ’ claim. He doesn’t appear to be denying there’s more liberals posting here; he’s claiming that’s because we’re less delusional. > > AIUI, it’s a riff on Colbert’s “reality has a well-known liberal bias.” OK, let’s regroup a bit and firm up what’s being argued. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Furthermore, it’s also unquestionably the case that the SDMB as a whole is left-leaning, so that any right-wing opinion posted is going to be met with a LOT of disagreement, of various tones, levels of intellect and levels of politeness. And, unfortunately, that has become somewhat of a vicious cycle… as right wing posters have become fewer, the ratio has increased, making the situation worse, etc. > [@Bricker](#): > > And yet both of these propositions are denied, either implicitly or explicitly, in this very thread. > > And yet I see you come to me with a request to affirm them, rather than criticize the people denying them. Proposition #1, offered by **MaxtheVool** , which I said was being denied, either explicitly or implicitly, in this very thread: _Furthermore, it’s also unquestionably the case that the SDMB as a whole is left-leaning_ Agreed as to proposition #1? Proposition #2, offered by **MaxtheVool** , which I said was being denied, either explicitly or implicitly, in this very thread: \* And, unfortunately, that has become somewhat of a vicious cycle… as right wing posters have become fewer, the ratio has increased…\* Agreed as to proposition #2? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/771 "2012-02-06T18:25:18Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Maybe we need a “redacted” app for ease of reading? Blacks out anything inside a set of bendy curvy things. That’s a [fantastic|terrible] idea! ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/772 "2012-02-06T18:45:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, let’s regroup a bit and firm up what’s being argued. > > Proposition #1, offered by **MaxtheVool** , which I said was being denied, either explicitly or implicitly, in this very thread: _Furthermore, it’s also unquestionably the case that the SDMB as a whole is left-leaning_ > > Agreed as to proposition #1? > > Proposition #2, offered by **MaxtheVool** , which I said was being denied, either explicitly or implicitly, in this very thread: \* And, unfortunately, that has become somewhat of a vicious cycle… as right wing posters have become fewer, the ratio has increased…\* > > Agreed as to proposition #2? So, with your new, more selective block quoting, you’re saying my interpretation of which propositions you claimed are being denied was incorrect? That you were not accusing un-named liberals in this thread of denying that liberals ever misbehave, _as I listed explicitly as my interpretation several times for your review_? Really, **Bricker** , a little bit of correction on that point a few posts ago would’ve been in better faith, doncha think? I do not fully understand your new proposition #2. You’d have to explain to me what SDMB phenomenon you think is being denied that can be expressed as a ratio which has increased. Is it [ul] [li]the raw ratio of liberals to conservatives on the board, or[/li][li]the ratio of posts expressing disagreement with any single given conservative proposition as compared to posts in support of that proposition?[/ul][/li] I think the first is a point of disagreement between you and **RTF** , where he’s been affirming and you denying the proposition! And I think the second is so slippery as to not only be difficult to demonstrate but also to deny or affirm. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/773 "2012-02-06T18:49:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, you are lying. I have never stated or implied that I do not mean the things I say. > > As I said, you are a lying troll. > > Regards, > Shodan Can’t be arsed right now to find where you bragged about having done exactly that–I’m sure it was in one of the threads where you were asked to explain what “Regards,” meant, at the very least–but maybe someone can remember where the evidence for your blithe disavowals of ownership of your words might be found. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/774 "2012-02-06T18:54:54Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Can’t be arsed right now to find where you bragged about having done exactly that… In other words, you are a lying troll. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/775 "2012-02-06T19:02:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I feel bad for you, what with being barely sentient all the time. How do you measure sentience over the internet? > [@](#): > > To the extent that liberals are angry, it’s because ignorant people like you believe misinformation and nonsense, and actively make the country worse because of it. I’d like for you to point out what “misinformation and nonsense” I believe, and how I’m actively trying to make the country worse. Because, from my vantage point, it’s the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/776 "2012-02-06T19:04:57Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > So, with your new, more selective block quoting, you’re saying my interpretation of which propositions you claimed are being denied was incorrect? That you were not accusing un-named liberals in this thread of denying that liberals ever misbehave, _as I listed explicitly as my interpretation several times for your review_? My new, selective block quoting, eh? OK. Why don’t you quote my statement more appropriately, then, so it shows where I said what you claimed? Go ahead and do that, and we’ll proceed from there. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/777 "2012-02-06T19:10:32Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > How do you measure sentience over the internet? Your username, for one thing. While black conservatives are a rarity IRL, they’re quite abundant on op-ed pages, in right-wing think tanks, and in the commentariat generally. It’s the wingnut parody of affirmative action, in action. So your handle, which suggests that some people might be surprised to find out that there are black conservatives, reveals a pretty deep well of ignorance or idiocy, I can’t say which. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/778 "2012-02-06T19:22:21Z")
No, **Bricker** , I’m pointing out that your [latest block quoting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14745919&postcount=770) of **MaxTheVool** ’s post which ignited your indignation is more selective than your [initial block quoting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14744899&postcount=715) was. Since your initial umbrage was directed not only at the paragraph which you’ve now separated into Propositions #1 and #2, but also at the paragraph which pointed out that liberals can be assholes too, it was my stated impression that this assertion was included in your claim to **Max** as being denied in the thread. Would’ve been nice if you’d corrected me when I first so characterized your argument. Now that you’ve zeroed in on the leftward tilt of the board and this poorly defined ratio as being the disputed propositions, I’d like to get the ratio clarified so I can understand whether I even disagree that it’s being denied. Seems so far like I don’t even agree that the meaning is even commonly understood between you, me and the rest of this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/779 "2012-02-06T20:02:48Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > No, **Bricker** , I’m pointing out that your [latest block quoting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14745919&postcount=770) of **MaxTheVool** ’s post which ignited your indignation is more selective than your [initial block quoting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14744899&postcount=715) was. Since your initial umbrage was directed not only at the paragraph which you’ve now separated into Propositions #1 and #2, but also at the paragraph which pointed out that liberals can be assholes too, it was my stated impression that this assertion was included in your claim to **Max** as being denied in the thread. > > Would’ve been nice if you’d corrected me when I first so characterized your argument. Yes. My bad. I was focusing on that second paragraph and quoted the first to give context to the conversation, not to take issue with its claims. > [@](#): > > Now that you’ve zeroed in on the leftward tilt of the board and this poorly defined ratio as being the disputed propositions, I’d like to get the ratio clarified so I can understand whether I even disagree that it’s being denied. Seems so far like I don’t even agree that the meaning is even commonly understood between you, me and the rest of this message board. OK. Distilled to its essence: 1. This boards leans left, as understood in American political terms. 2. Some posters deny that. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530/780 "2012-02-06T20:28:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. Distilled to its essence: > > 1. This boards leans left, as understood in American political terms. > 2. Some posters deny that. > > Agreed? Sure. But I want to state again why I’m arguing this and why I think it’s relevant to the treatment you receive on the boards during political discussions. When **MaxTheVool** made his assertions, whether you agreed with them or not, your response was to chastise **Max** for failing to criticize others who did not accept those propositions. As if these denials had already been demonstrated, but more importantly as if such denials, were they to exist, had fuck all to do with **Max** ’ point, or with the general treatment of conservatives by liberals. This sort of reflexive accusation from you is often parodied as “come and see the liberal hypocrisy!” and is why you’re greeted with hostility more often than your basic conservative viewpoint would merit if you were to present it without such sanctimony. That’s a separate issue, of course, from the general SDMB tradition of hostility to GOP / right wing talking points, which as others have said is very much part and parcel of the anti-woo, pro-science tradition on the board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shodan-more-retarded-lately-or-has-he-maintained-a-consistent-level-of-retardation-all-along/610530.md?page=40)