# Is 'shylocking' a racist/dirty word? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549 "2007-04-18T00:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![askman200704](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@askman200704](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askman200704)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/1 "2007-04-18T00:52:46Z")
People in gangster movies and tv shows often use the word ‘shylock’ or ‘shylocking’ to refer to anyone who lends money at an extremely high rate. I know the word is derived from the name of Shakespear’s Merchant of Venice character, who was a money lender and who also happened to have been Jewish. My sense is that there is a underlying anti-Jewish feeling in people (Tony Soprano, et al) who use that word today. **Is the word acceptable in polite conversation?** Or is there such a history of hatred and bigotry against Jewish people associated with the word that it is right up there with the n-word, ‘to gyp’, or other such terms. I ask because an annotated law textbook includes the word in its index to refer to laws about criminally high interest rates. The term isn’t use in the actual law. Yet the authors of the law textbook put it in the index. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/2 "2007-04-18T01:17:43Z")
I wouldn’t call it a dirty word, but it propagates an anti-Semitic stereotype and is likely to offend people. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/3 "2007-04-18T01:31:38Z")
Pretty good question. I’m not sure whether to leave it in General Questions, as it may not have a single specific answer. From the good folks over at the [American Dialect Society](http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0304C&L=ADS-L&D=0&I=-3&P=5836), I can provide: > [@](#): > > As to why Shakespeare gave his Jewish merchant (note the title of the play, > which perhaps should have been “The Merchants of Venice”) such a WASP name, > the answer is that circa 1600 the English were only familiar with Sephardic > Jews who had names like Spinoza or Mendez. To an Elizabethan audience, > “Shylock” was as plausible a name for a Jew as such rearly heard German > concoctions as “Goldstein” or “Rosenberg.” Note “Rosencrantz” and > “Guildenstern”, both of whom were Gentiles. > > ``` > - Jim Landau > > ``` . That’s just for some historical perspective. Certainly the word can’t possibly rank up with “Nigger.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/4 "2007-04-18T01:42:28Z")
I read _The Merchant of Venice_ 40 years ago (in a Catholic high school, no less) and even then we were told that Shylock’s character was often cited as an antisemitic stereotype. OTOH neither of the two unabridged dictionaries I have have any flag or warning about the term. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/5 "2007-04-18T01:50:00Z")
It would raise my eyebrows. It smacks of 'jewing him down" or something. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/6 "2007-04-18T02:29:23Z")
A neutral word with precisely the same meaning is _usury_ (noun; _usurious_ is the adjective). I concur that _shylocking_ would usually be seen as perpetuating a negative ethnic stereotype, even among those who would be aware of the source. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/7 "2007-04-18T14:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=askman200704] People in gangster movies and tv shows often use the word ‘shylock’ or ‘shylocking’ to refer to anyone who lends money at an extremely high rate. I know the word is derived from the name of Shakespear’s Merchant of Venice character, who was a money lender and who also happened to have been Jewish. [/QUOTE] Shylock didn’t “also happen to have been Jewish”. The fact that he was Jewish was a major plot point in the play - at the trial, where he is trying to get his pound of flesh, he is ultimately convicted of being an alien (i.e. Jew) who attempts to murder a Christian, and is force to convert to Catholicism. You couldn’t just make him a Christian moneylender without rewriting the whole play. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/8 "2007-04-18T14:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Shylock didn’t “also happen to have been Jewish”. The fact that he was Jewish was a major plot point in the play - at the trial, where he is trying to get his pound of flesh, he is ultimately convicted of being an alien (i.e. Jew) who attempts to murder a Christian, and is force to convert to Catholicism. You couldn’t just make him a Christian moneylender without rewriting the whole play. [/QUOTE] There were some actual historical reasons if I recall correctly. The Banks and people you made loans tended to overwhelmingly be Jewish in that time frame due to the Church restrictions on loaning money for interest. Shylock has taken on a negative connotation and the character was not a shining example of humanity. However, Shakespeare had some legitimate reasons to make his character Jewish. [End of Europe’s Middle Ages - Banking in the Middle Ages](http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/endmiddle/bluedot/banking.html) > [@](#): > > A major obstacle to the growth of banks in the Middle Ages was the Church’s prohibition of usury, the charging of interest on loans. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/9 "2007-04-18T15:24:29Z")
In parts of the middle ages, that might have been true, but by Shakespeare’s time, it wasn’t anymore. By then, Italians were doing most of the moneylending. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/10 "2007-04-18T15:43:20Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] In parts of the middle ages, that might have been true, but by Shakespeare’s time, it wasn’t anymore. [/QUOTE] Agreed, but the tradition of moneylenders being Jewish was still in place. Many if not most moneylenders were still Jewish, I thought, having had the head start. > [@](#): > > By then, Italians were doing most of the moneylending. Is that correct? I thought even in Shakespeare’s time it was mostly Jews and Germanic people. I did not ever read about the Italians taking over. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/11 "2007-04-18T23:24:48Z")
So, did the Church have interest-free loans then, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/12 "2007-04-19T00:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=Common Tater] So, did the Church have interest-free loans then, or what? [/QUOTE] Yes, all loans were supposed to be done interest-free, out of friendship and christian charity toward your neighbors. But of course, there were lots of sneaky ways used to get around this prohibition: - you had to deliver the loan (cash, in those days) to the borrower, so your servants & some guards carried it to their house – and there was a _‘carrying charge’_ for this service, which was usually a percentage of the loan. But that’s not interest. - the loan was interest-free, but for a short time (like a week or two). After that, there were _‘late-payment penalties’_, which increased for each month that you didn’t pay. But that’s not interest. - there was no loan, just a purchase with a higher price, but _‘time payments’_. You bought a horse from the lender, that would normally sell for 100 sheckels in cash. You agreed to pay 30 sheckels each quarter for a year, totaling 120 sheckels. But you had simply not bargained as well as the buyer with cash in hand, so you paid 20 sheckels more over one year. But that’s not interest. All of these word games are still used today, in Islamic Banking, since fundamentalist Islamic rules do not allow interest. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/13 "2007-04-19T00:05:40Z")
The two big big banks around 1500 were the Medici out of Florence and the Fuggers out of Augsburg-- the former eclipse the latter pretty early in the 16th c. I’m not sure when the Genoans really get into it-- it’s possible that by Shakespeare’s time that they were dominant. Before the Dutch in any case. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/14 "2007-04-19T02:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Yes, all loans were supposed to be done interest-free, out of friendship and christian charity toward your neighbors. But of course, there were lots of sneaky ways used to get around this prohibition: - you had to deliver the loan (cash, in those days) to the borrower, so your servants & some guards carried it to their house – and there was a _‘carrying charge’_ for this service, which was usually a percentage of the loan. But that’s not interest. - the loan was interest-free, but for a short time (like a week or two). After that, there were _‘late-payment penalties’_, which increased for each month that you didn’t pay. But that’s not interest. - there was no loan, just a purchase with a higher price, but _‘time payments’_. You bought a horse from the lender, that would normally sell for 100 sheckels in cash. You agreed to pay 30 sheckels each quarter for a year, totaling 120 sheckels. But you had simply not bargained as well as the buyer with cash in hand, so you paid 20 sheckels more over one year. But that’s not interest. All of these word games are still used today, in Islamic Banking, since fundamentalist Islamic rules do not allow interest. [/QUOTE] Where are you getting your information? Or are you jesting? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/15 "2007-04-19T03:39:54Z")
Slightly off topic, but pertinent, **Bricker** ’s brief history of the change in loan policy within the church: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6170884&highlight=loan\*#post6170884](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6170884&highlight=loan%2A#post6170884) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/16 "2007-04-20T23:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Is that correct? I thought even in Shakespeare’s time it was mostly Jews and Germanic people. I did not ever read about the Italians taking over. [/QUOTE] The Jews had been expelled from England in 1290. With the exception of a few Marranos like Rodrigo Lopez, there were no Jews in England at Shakespeare’s time. They weren’t allowed back until the Commonwealth. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/17 "2007-04-20T23:24:03Z")
As a jew, if you call me a shylock or accuse me of shylocking, you are likely to get punched in the face. And I am not a violent person. If you refer to someone else this way, I will just think you are an ingnorant ass, but probably not say anything (because I am, like I said, a rather passive/cowerdly person) I wouldn’t be _quite_ as offended as if you called me a kike. But it would be up there. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/18 "2007-04-21T00:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] As a jew, if you call me a shylock or accuse me of shylocking, you are likely to get punched in the face. And I am not a violent person. I wouldn’t be _quite_ as offended as if you called me a kike. But it would be up there. [/QUOTE] As a person probably a bit older than you, I’m amazed that “kike” wouldn’t be more of an insult. ---
**Author:** ![H3Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@H3Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/H3Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/19 "2007-04-21T04:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] As a person probably a bit older than you, I’m amazed that “kike” wouldn’t be more of an insult. [/QUOTE] Not really my place, but I’m pretty sure he was saying that being called a shylock would not be as much of an insult as being called a kike, but that it would still provoke a pretty strong reaction. As to the OP… Huh. Color me surprised. I’d never really heard shylock used as an anti-semitic phrase (of course, I haven’t heard it used much at all in my life, but still), just as a criticism that the individual was behaving in an undesirable way (ie, like the character Shylock). I’d understood that Shylock was jewish, and that it was significant to the plot (“If you prick us, do we not bleed?”), but I guess having never read or seen _Merchant of Venice_ might be part of my ignorance on the matter. To put it simply, had I been asked without reading this thread, I would’ve answered “When used to criticize a jewish individual, institution, or jewish people, yes. But as often as not it is simply being used to compare an individual to a specific character for behaving in what is seen as a cold-hearted, greedy manner.” Well, consider my ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549/20 "2007-04-21T04:14:12Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Where are you getting your information? Or are you jesting? [/QUOTE] I looked around on Wikipedia and found [this article on Islamic banking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking). Very interesting read. The article is quite a bit longer, but here are a few quote of interest to me: > [@](#): > > Islamic banking refers to a system of banking or banking activity that is consistent with Islamic law (Shariah) principles and guided by Islamic economics. In particular, Islamic law prohibits usury, the collection and payment of interest, also commonly called riba in Islamic discourse. Generally, Islamic law also prohibits trading in financial risk (which is seen as a form of gambling). In addition, Islamic law prohibits investing in businesses that are considered unlawful, or haraam (such as businesses that sell alcohol or pork, or businesses that produce media such as gossip columns or pornography, which are contrary to Islamic values). In the late 20th century, a number of Islamic banks were created, to cater to this particular banking market. > [@](#): > > In an Islamic mortgage transaction, instead of loaning the buyer money to purchase the item, a bank might buy the item itself from the seller, and re-sell it to the buyer at a profit, while allowing the buyer to pay the bank in installments. However, the fact that it is profit cannot be made explicit and therefore there are no additional penalties for late payment. In order to protect itself against default, the bank asks for strict collateral. The goods or land is registered to the name of the buyer from the start of the transaction. This arrangement is called Murabaha. Another approach is Ijara wa Iqtina, which is similar to real-estate leasing. Islamic banks handle loans for vehicles in a similar way (selling the vehicle at a higher-than-market price to the debtor and then retaining ownership of the vehicle until the loan is paid). > [@](#): > > **Concepts In Islamic debt banking** > > **Bai’ al-Inah (Sale and Buy Back Agreement)** > > The financier sells an asset to the customer on a deferred-payment basis, and then the asset is immediately repurchased by the financier for cash at a discount. The buying back agreement allows the bank to assume ownership over the asset in order to protect against default without explicitly charging interest in the event of late payments or insolvency. > > **Bai’ Bithaman Ajil (Deferred Payment Sale)** > > This concept refers to the sale of goods on a deferred payment basis at a price, which includes a profit margin agreed to by both parties. This is similar to Murabahah, except that the debtor makes only a single installment on the maturity date of the loan. By the application of a discount rate, an Islamic bank can collect the market rate of interest. > > **Bai muajjal** > > Literally bai muajjal means a credit sale. Technically, it is a financing technique adopted by Islamic banks that takes the form of murabaha muajjal. It is a contract in which the bank earns a profit margin on the purchase price and allows the buyer to pay the price of the commodity at a future date in a lump sum or in installments. It has to expressly mention cost of the commodity and the margin of profit is mutually agreed. The price fixed for the commodity in such a transaction can be the same as the spot price or higher or lower than the spot price. > > **Baihaqi kasi salam** > > Bai salam means a contract in which advance payment is made for goods to be delivered later on. The seller undertakes to supply some specific goods to the buyer at a future date in exchange of an advance price fully paid at the time of contract. It is necessary that the quality of the commodity intended to be purchased is fully specified leaving no ambiguity leading to dispute. The objects of this sale are goods and cannot be gold, silver, or currencies. Barring this, Bai Salam covers almost everything, which is capable of being definitely described as to quantity, quality, and workmanship. > > **Hibah (Gift)** > > This is a token given voluntarily by a debtor to a creditor in return for a loan. Hibah usually arises in practice when Islamic banks voluntarily pay their customers interest on savings account balances. > [@](#): > > Many Muslims and non Muslims alike have opposed these Islamic banks, claiming that they do deal in interest but merely conceal it through legal tricks.[citation needed] Indeed, from an economic perspective, Islamic banks do compensate and charge for the time value of money, thus paying and receiving what is known in economics as interest. Such people compare Islamic banking to contractum trinius—a legal trick devised by European bankers and merchants during the Middle Ages, designed to facilitate the borrowing of money at a fixed rate of interest (something that the Church fiercely opposed) through combining three different contractual agreements that in and of themselves were not prohibited by the Church. While Islamic law prohibits the collection of interest, it does allow a seller to resell an item at a higher price than it was bought for, as long as there are clearly two transactions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-shylocking-a-racist-dirty-word/400549.md?page=2)