# Is skipping out on a date and leaving them with the food bill a (literal) crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 8, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002 "2018-09-08T15:04:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/61 "2018-09-13T11:08:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It appears like it, at the very least they went in jointly to pay with a agreement between the 2. Because this was premeditated it seems beyond the jointly, one person has a emergency and has to leave type thing and into some sort of theft. But who did he steal from? Her or the restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/62 "2018-09-13T13:13:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But who did he steal from? Her or the restaurant? That’s the question nobody seems able to answer - that is, does the last person remaining at the table have a legal obligation to pay for the meals of everyone who ate at that table? If so, then he stole from her. If not, then he stole from the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/63 "2018-09-13T14:03:12Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That’s the question nobody seems able to answer - that is, does the last person remaining at the table have a legal obligation to pay for the meals of everyone who ate at that table? It’s very unlikely you’re going to get a definitive answer to this question, because I doubt that this sort of thing makes it to court very often. The best you’re going to get is what I said—You can’t say that she agreed to a contract that she didn’t know about, so it’s unlikely that she has a legal obligation to pay for his meal in this circumstances. > [@](#): > > If so, then he stole from her. If not, then he stole from the restaurant. It’s simpler than that. If she paid the bill, then he committed fraud on her. If no one paid the bill, then he stole from the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/64 "2018-09-13T14:39:43Z")
Unless separate checks are asked for before the meal, then the check is to be paid by the party in general, and if she is what is left of the party at the end of the meal then she is obligated to pay. While it may be good PR to show some mercy when it comes to her predicament, they are not part of whatever negotiations the party may or may not have made prior to the meal. Also, the restaurant has to consider the possibility that the whole thing may be a scam perpetrated by both the man and the woman to cut the bill in half. edited to add: There is also the possibility [that the wait-person will be held liable if someone skips.](https://employment-law.freeadvice.com/employment-law/employment-law/salary_employr.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/65 "2018-09-13T15:05:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless separate checks are asked for before the meal, then the check is to be paid by the party in general, Agreed. > [@](#): > > and if she is what is left of the party at the end of the meal then she is obligated to pay. This gets into the part that’s non-obvious/disputed. You seem to be saying that, when the first person leaves, the general obligation to pay “collapses” to the remaining person; and if she then also leaves without paying, that obligation to pay (and thus the culpability for not paying) remains solely on her, instead of reverting back to the “party in general.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/66 "2018-09-13T15:06:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless separate checks are asked for before the meal, then the check is to be paid by the party in general, and if she is what is left of the party at the end of the meal then she is obligated to pay. Unless there’s some authority that says this, I can’t take it at face value. It’s a contract like any other, which requires knowledgeable assent. It’s a very good argument that a party that joined a table late cannot have assented to be obligated by a transaction, or a portion of a transaction, that she didn’t know about. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/67 "2018-09-13T15:26:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Unless there’s some authority that says this, I can’t take it at face value. It’s a contract like any other, which requires knowledgeable assent. It’s a very good argument that a party that joined a table late cannot have assented to be obligated by a transaction, or a portion of a transaction, that she didn’t know about. Would the situation be the same in the OP if the female skipped out and the male claimed that she was supposed to pay the bill? Would there be an equal chance that the restaurant would take pity on him and let him leave without paying(or even cut his bill in half)? Once again, the restaurant is not party to whatever negotiations the two people made beforehand, and it would be sexist to assume that the male is the one who will pay the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/68 "2018-09-13T15:47:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would the situation be the same in the OP if the female skipped out and the male claimed that she was supposed to pay the bill? Legally, or practically? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/69 "2018-09-13T15:49:19Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Legally, or practically? Both. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/70 "2018-09-13T15:57:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would the situation be the same in the OP if the female skipped out and the male claimed that she was supposed to pay the bill? Would there be an equal chance that the restaurant would take pity on him and let him leave without paying(or even cut his bill in half)? Once again, the restaurant is not party to whatever negotiations the two people made beforehand, and it would be sexist to assume that the male is the one who will pay the bill. I made no comment on the gender of the participants. As for whether the restaurant is more likely to believe a man or a woman in that situation, it doesn’t affect the contract analysis. And we are talking about contractual relationships between the restaurant and the two individuals. There is no “table” that is a legal person in this scenario. There are just the individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/71 "2018-09-13T16:02:11Z")
And the question isn’t about who was “supposed to pay the bill.” It’s about whether person A can obligate person B in a contract or a portion of a contract without person B’s knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/72 "2018-09-13T16:03:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I made no comment on the gender of the participants. As for whether the restaurant is more likely to believe a man or a woman in that situation, it doesn’t affect the contract analysis. > > And we are talking about contractual relationships between the restaurant and the two individuals. There is no “table” that is a legal person in this scenario. There are just the individuals. Unless it is agreed beforehand that the checks will be split, it is the party that is being served and the party that is being billed. I have yet to see a single bill presented at the end of a meal that has two(or more) separate totals listed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/73 "2018-09-13T16:09:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And the question isn’t about who was “supposed to pay the bill.” > > It’s about whether person A can obligate person B in a contract or a portion of a contract without person B’s knowledge. And what I am saying is that, if there is a con going on, the person who loses out is the person left at the table, not the person who owns the table. The person at the table has at least a chance to do a cursory background check by checking online and/or asking friends, and thus is at least partially responsible for what happens afterwards. The contract is between the restaurant and the party who sits at the table-the separate contract of who will pay for what is a separate contract between the people at the table. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/74 "2018-09-13T18:07:04Z")
As a matter of contract law, Person B has a very good argument that whatever ordering and eating that took place without her knowledge constitutes a completely different transaction because it happened without her knowledge. There’s no legal rule that I know of that says that the fact that a restaurant presents a single bill means that there can’t be two contracts. Your assertions are bare assertions that you haven’t backed up with any principle of law. You’re simply asserting your own preference. So I have nothing more to say in response. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/75 "2018-09-13T18:31:15Z")
[Joint and Several Liability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability): Under joint and several liability or all sums, a claimant may pursue an obligation against any one party as if they were jointly liable and it becomes the responsibility of the defendants to sort out their respective proportions of liability and payment. This means that if the claimant pursues one defendant and receives payment, that defendant must then pursue the other obligors for a contribution to their share of the liability. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/76 "2018-09-13T18:42:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Joint and Several Liability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability): Under joint and several liability or all sums, a claimant may pursue an obligation against any one party as if they were jointly liable and it becomes the responsibility of the defendants to sort out their respective proportions of liability and payment. This means that if the claimant pursues one defendant and receives payment, that defendant must then pursue the other obligors for a contribution to their share of the liability. This is just a theory of liability when there are multiple potential defendants. You can certainly seek damages under this theory, but that doesn’t support your assertions that that is what’s happening in this case. The restaurant still has to prove in the first place that Person B is responsible for the loss. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/77 "2018-09-13T18:46:54Z")
Let’s put another spin on the hypotheticals. She realizes that he’s left, but rather than make a fuss, she just tells the waiter to bring separate checks. She pays hers and leaves after explaining the situation to management. Presumably she paid with a debit or credit card so there is a record that can be traced back to her if the restaurant decides to pursue this issue. Would the restaurant have any legal recourse against her? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/78 "2018-09-13T18:48:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is just a theory of liability when there are multiple potential defendants. You can certainly seek damages under this theory, but that doesn’t support your assertions that that is what’s happening in this case. The restaurant still has to prove in the first place that Person B is responsible for the loss. The restaurant just has to prove that Person B was part of the party. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/79 "2018-09-13T18:51:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The person at the table has at least a chance to do a cursory background check by checking online and/or asking friends, and thus is at least partially responsible for what happens afterwards. Yeah, what law is that written in to? “You could have found out he was a dick, so pay for the food the guy ate before you got there.” No, I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > The contract is between the restaurant and the party who sits at the table-the separate contract of who will pay for what is a separate contract between the people at the table. Do you have a cite for that? How does sitting at the table afterwards make that person liable? How about the contract is between the one ordering and eating the food and the restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002/80 "2018-09-13T19:05:32Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Yeah, what law is that written in to? “You could have found out he was a dick, so pay for the food the guy ate before you got there.” No, I don’t think so. > Do you have a cite for that? How does sitting at the table afterwards make that person liable? How about the contract is between the one ordering and eating the food and the restaurant? I provided a cite for what we’re actually talking about, not your “he was already eating when person B decided to sit and chat for awhile” scenario. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-skipping-out-on-a-date-and-leaving-them-with-the-food-bill-a-literal-crime/821002.md?page=5)