# Is Smapti Serious? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666 "2012-01-16T04:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/61 "2012-01-16T20:02:31Z")
Look, if I’m going to vote for a totalitarian system, I’m voting for [Vermin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme) [Supreme](http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/10/vermin-supreme-the-presidential-candidate-who-promises-free-ponies/). ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/62 "2012-01-16T20:25:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > All children should be confiscated from their parents at birth and raised in group homes as wards of the state until 16. No child should ever be permitted to know who their biological relatives are > > In other words, treat all children like adoptees. I for one would like to shake your hand for your work exposing the evil of adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/63 "2012-01-16T21:10:03Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I for one would like to shake your hand for your work exposing the evil of adoption. Chortle. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/64 "2012-01-16T21:18:12Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I for one would like to shake your hand for your work exposing the evil of adoption. Rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/65 "2012-01-16T21:48:58Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] Are spouses forbidden too? [/QUOTE] I imagine that marriage would not exist as an institution, but that there would probably still be people who choose to cohabit and be monogamous. [QUOTE=snarkykong] Yes, almost exactly. I imagine Smapti was just paraphrasing The Republic. [/quote] Not letter-for-letter, but i’d say the roots of these ideas are a bit of the Republic, a bit Brave New World, a bit of Asimov and a _teeny tiny bit_ of Ayn Rand. [QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Smapti, are you a Greener? [/QUOTE] No, I have a community college degree in journalism which turned out to be a complete waste because by the time I’d earned it I was disgusted with the state of the media and decided not to pursue it further. I do know some Greeners, and they’re mostly decent people. [QUOTE=digs] Smapti, are you a Nutter? [/QUOTE] No. [QUOTE=guizot] It has become clear from a lot of research that bonding with specific parental figures is key to basic cognitive development. If we did this, we’d soon have a nation of mentally crippled people. [/QUOTE] Suppose that that bond with a parent could be substituted with a bond to the state? [QUOTE=John Mace] So, you don’t think your beliefs should be implemented, but you still believe them. Are they divinely inspired or something? [/QUOTE] I don’t believe that they’re _implementable_ under current circumstances. This kind of sea change in human society would take several generations to implement, so you’d need a government that was committed enough to the idea of accomplishing it to hold several generations worth of politicians accountable to it, prevent corruption, and crush any public opposition to it - in other words, a dictatorship. And while it might sound like i’m advocating some kind of Brave New World style fascism, the society i’m imagining is meant to be an “enlightened” democracy based around the idea that the government’s purpose is to maximize the individual’s potential for self-actualization. Pretty much the only way I imagine it could be implemented is if there were some sort of complete breakdown of western civilization and we had to build a functioning society from scratch. And since I believe that neither generations of oppressive dictatorship, nor the collapse of civilization are in anyone’s interests, I don’t see my ideas as being implementable. No hard feelings for the pitting, **Qin.** It’s actually kind of fun to be able to talk about these ideas without people shouting me down or calling me a monster for wanting to take their kids away from them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/66 "2012-01-17T00:45:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Suppose that that bond with a parent could be substituted with a bond to the state? No–among other things, it has to do with face-to-face interaction with a specific person. Humans have evolved this way for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@Rala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rala)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/67 "2012-01-17T08:12:54Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > There are a lot of proponents for breaking up the nuclear family. > Notably in ‘_Brave New World_’, all children all raised in creches. > … > The only way they (the society proposed by Huxley in ‘Brave New World’) could do this is because human society (almost universally) has been built around attachment between the children and their parents You know that book is a dystopia, right? Huxley wasn’t proposing anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/68 "2012-01-17T09:32:38Z")
It’s meant as a dystopia, but it’s quite appealing when you think about it and try to forget the ethical/moral angles. The people in the first world are happy (because they’re bred to, and are doped to the gills anyway), the people in the third world are happy (because even though they live in abject poverty, they love each other and all that), and the people on the island are happy (because they’re smarter than everyone else and have been acknowledged as such). Seems to me, from a contentment standpoint, their world is above ours. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/69 "2012-01-17T10:49:25Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > That created a deliberately caste-like system. “I am an Alpha, and I better than a Beta”. Well, actually, _all_ the castes felts that way. The Betas were conditioned not to regard the Alphas as superior, but as the unlucky schmoes who had to deal with the stresses of managing the system, whereas the Betas were more like skilled technicians who operated the machinery. The Betas were conditioned to love being Betas, with no aspirations of “promotion”. The Gamma, Delta and Epsilon castes were similarly conditioned to just love their place in society, though there were no significant characters in the book from these castes and thus no internal perspective presented to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/70 "2012-01-17T13:31:39Z")
Which is all well and good until The Computer takes over, goes insane, and starts ordering them by colors. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/71 "2012-01-17T14:42:43Z")
I agree with the 100% inheritance tax, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/72 "2012-01-17T15:03:30Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which is all well and good until The Computer takes over, goes insane, and starts ordering them by colors. Knowledge of the colour order is an ultraviolet skill, citizen. Please report to the nearest incineration chamber. And remember : The Computer is your friend ! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/73 "2012-01-17T15:19:41Z")
A 100% inheritance tax will simply mean that parents will find ways to pass on all of their assets to their children \*before \*they die. The end result will be the same, and the only people who will gain anything will be the lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/74 "2012-01-17T15:26:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A 100% inheritance tax will simply mean that parents will find ways to pass on all of their assets to their children \*before \*they die. The end result will be the same, and the only people who will gain anything will be the lawyers. There are already laws in effect to prevent that silly loophole from affecting the current inheritance laws. ETA: explicitly, or at least it’s that way in French law, you’re only allowed so much “gift giving” to your siblings, and if you go above that threshold the Taxman sharpens his knife. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/75 "2012-01-17T15:48:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A 100% inheritance tax will simply mean that parents will find ways to pass on all of their assets to their children \*before \*they die. The end result will be the same, and the only people who will gain anything will be the lawyers. That’s fine. The transfers themselves are already taxable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/76 "2012-01-17T16:25:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > There are already laws in effect to prevent that silly loophole from affecting the current inheritance laws. > > ETA: explicitly, or at least it’s that way in French law, you’re only allowed so much “gift giving” to your siblings, and if you go above that threshold the Taxman sharpens his knife. Same in the US. I think it’s ~$12,000/year. But I assume **Allesan** was thinking of clever ways that lawyers have of getting around that. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/77 "2012-01-17T16:32:18Z")
> [@Rala](#): > > You know that book is a dystopia, right? Huxley wasn’t proposing anything of the sort. I misspoke. Yes, I am quite aware that _Brave New World_ is a dystopia, in the same vein as _1984_. I should have phrased it differently. Huxley’s \*\*characters \*\*proposed and implemented those kind of eugenic nightmares. Thanks for the clarification and correction. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/78 "2012-01-17T16:36:51Z")
I propose a new catchphrase: “I’m really awfully glad I’m a Doper, because I don’t work so hard.” Is that too long? Maybe we should be Alphas. But that would too dang hard. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/79 "2012-01-17T20:14:23Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually I think family bonds are very important which is why I am vehemently opposed to adoption, single-parent families, and the emphasis of the nuclear family over the extended family group. Smagti proposed a scenario to create an equal baseline for all children through which no one would have an advantage from birth circumstances. I am clarifying how it could be done. But if what you laid out was followed, the kids would be rotated through different homes, and lose all there friends. After time, I’d bet many would stop making friends all together. I fail to see how that helps create an extended family group. I just had a thought. Did you mean all the kids in a home would be moved to the same new home at the same time? That would allow them to keep friends, but I do not see the point in doing that. So I am at a loss. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666/80 "2012-01-17T20:18:52Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If the children changed homes often enough and no group of children were allowed to have the same group of peers for more than a few months, it would be rather difficult for them to form bonds to any particular group. And the type of group homes I am imagining would be more like large, institutional orphanages. Furthermore, alumni could be legally barred to from providing financial support, job opportuntiies, etc. to their institution. at the rate I see people defying the mores of their families and cutting off or abandoning their relatives to achieve their own happiness, I am far from agreeing that tribalism is hardwired into us. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You obviously have no idea what a sociopath is. Of all the people on this board, I probably live in the most instact mulit-generational tribal culture. Family means everything to me. However we are not discussing that in this thread. We are discussing how and why Smapti’s ideas could be implemented. I find the what ifs of the idea fascinating though much like Smapt, I doubt it would ever occur except of course through the alien conquest scenario I see what you did there. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smapti-serious/609666.md?page=5)