# Is Smoking Really 'THAT' Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723 "2017-02-01T02:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Navy\_draftee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ec9cab/32.png) [@Navy\_draftee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navy_draftee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/41 "2017-02-01T18:54:24Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Interesting discussion I had with my doctor not too long ago. He has since retired. But I told him, every year around Christmas time, I light up a cigar. I asked him, surely there is no harm in _ **that** _, is there? He said, not at all. In fact, when he went home that day, he was thinking of doing the same. > > Now, I don’t have any cites to give, sorry. But my general impression of the smoking debate, is that people are all piling on the tobacco companies. They are an easy target, and rather politically vulnerable too I think (unlike the gun industry–for example). > > My question is simply this: Is smoking really as bad for you as the media and powers that be want you to think? Could it be less toxic than we are led to believe? Actor George Burns lived a long, fruitful life. And he smoked cigars. Can you smoke, and still live a long healthy life? And finally, could there be a safe amount of smoking you can do? Consider the discussion I had with my doctor, as my “cite”. > > Thank you in advance to all who reply:) apples to oranges ( comparing cigarettes to an occasional cigar ) Most people who have an occasional cigar don’t inhale ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/42 "2017-02-01T19:46:38Z")
This is what I recall of a radio interview I heard last summer. Recent studies now suggest that coffee is good for you, whereas years ago, coffee had associations with all kinds of cancers. Apparently, drinking coffee and smoking used to be associated as well, causing coffee to be “tarred with the same brush”. That’s how bad smoking is- it can make something that is a health benefit look like a health hazard. The reason that even light and very light smoking is bad for you is that cigarette smoke\* paralyzes the cilia that help your lungs move mucous (which traps numerous dust particles) out. So even light smoking makes you more susceptible to lung diseases caused by particles, including infections. \*I say cigarette smoke because it is an offender and is purposefully drawn into the lungs- other kinds of smoke (including wood smoke) are almost certainly harmful if deeply inhaled as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/43 "2017-02-01T21:09:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > My point fundamentally is I do not think dying at 78 from lung cancer is a travesty but living to 85 and developing alzheimers or ending up totally disabled is a success. The body fails with age, the longer you live the more parts of it will fail. Not to be callous or grim about this or anything, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that if you really want to avoid extended illness or debility in extreme old age, you can do something about it when the time comes, instead of subjecting yourself to a lifetime of smoking and incurring extended illness or debility **before** extreme old age. By your own standards, which life is more “successful”: the nonsmoker who stays healthy till 85 and then, so to speak, takes a trip to the Soylent Green factory as soon as the first signs of terminal illness or debility are perceived, or the smoker who after several years of misery succumbs to lung cancer at 78? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/44 "2017-02-01T21:12:17Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > This is what I recall of a radio interview I heard last summer. > > Recent studies now suggest that coffee is good for you, whereas years ago, coffee had associations with all kinds of cancers. Apparently, drinking coffee and smoking used to be associated as well, causing coffee to be “tarred with the same brush”. > > That’s how bad smoking is- it can make something that is a health benefit look like a health hazard. > > The reason that even light and very light smoking is bad for you is that cigarette smoke\* paralyzes the cilia that help your lungs move mucous (which traps numerous dust particles) out. So even light smoking makes you more susceptible to lung diseases caused by particles, including infections. > > \*I say cigarette smoke because it is an offender and is purposefully drawn into the lungs- other kinds of smoke (including wood smoke) are almost certainly harmful if deeply inhaled as well. Coffee may or may not be good for you (it has anti-oxidants, but that is not necessarily a good thing). Further study found that any hot drink, above a certain temperature can increase the risk of cancer. > **[Cancer News and Stories](https://www.cancer.org/cancer/latest-news.html)** > > Our team of expert journalists brings you all angles of the cancer story – from breaking news and survivor stories to in-depth insights into cutting-edge research. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/45 "2017-02-01T21:59:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hardly, got a cite? While the stuff on rolling your own doesn’t match any real science I’m aware of, nicotine treatement for schizophrenia is a real thing. [Here’s the cite you requested.](https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/09/08/nicotine-therapy-for-schizophrenia/59285.html) However, OP let me be clear. The only way smoking is going to do anything but shorten your life is if you suffer from a severe mental health disorder. People with serious mental illness treated in the public health system die 25 years earlier than those without mental illness. [(Cite)](http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/06/smoking.aspx) Given that smoking takes on average ten years off your life, there is a possible gain of fifteen years. This is the logic my doctor used regarding my smoking. He doesn’t like it, but he agrees that it is less harmful than suicide. So compared to violently ending your own life, smoking isn’t that bad. Otherwise, yes, it’s russian roulette with four bullets out of six in the gun. Feeling lucky? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/46 "2017-02-01T22:09:36Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > While the stuff on rolling your own doesn’t match any real science I’m aware of, nicotine treatement for schizophrenia is a real thing. [Here’s the cite you requested.](https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/09/08/nicotine-therapy-for-schizophrenia/59285.html) He didn’t ask for a cite regarding benefits of nicotine; his post makes it clear that he’s aware of possible benefits. It was a request for a cite regarding the claim about rolling your own. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Plutonium_Kid)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/47 "2017-02-01T23:32:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I have heard the cigars are not as bad for you for this or that reason, but I have not looked up whether this is just folk knowledge or scientific fact. But is smoking, cigars or otherwise, once a year less bad than smoking a pack a day for a year? Most assuredly. As the typical cigar or pipe smoker doesn’t inhale deeply into his lungs, he runs a much smaller risk of lung cancer, heart disease and other disorders. However, they’re still significantly more subject to cancers of the throat, jaw, mouth, nasal passages, etc. depending on how much they smoke. Someone who smokes a pipe or cigar regularly is also taking major risks with his health. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/48 "2017-02-02T00:05:55Z")
> [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](#): > > As the typical cigar or pipe smoker doesn’t inhale deeply into his lungs, he runs a much smaller risk of lung cancer, heart disease and other disorders. However, they’re still significantly more subject to cancers of the throat, jaw, mouth, nasal passages, etc. depending on how much they smoke. Someone who smokes a pipe or cigar regularly is also taking major risks with his health. There is also apparently significant variability in how people smoke cigars (probably less so with pipes, IIRC). Some take the smoke into the mouth (The nominally correct way), some take it to the throat, and some inhale to lungs. While we’re at it, jumping up and down on poor li’l Big Tobacco, another way we observe is that chew and snuff are also associated with tumors _ **at their site of application** _. So, chew, cigars, and pipes primarily expose the mouth and throat, and that’s where we see most of the associated cancers. Cigarettes expose mouth, throat, trachea, and lungs we see its associated cancers. If anyone is unconvinced, I’ll let them connect the dots… ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/49 "2017-02-02T00:13:22Z")
Cigar smokers mostly don’t inhale, so their risk of dying from lung cancer is not as high as habitual cigarette smokers. Cigar smokers get cancer of the lips, tongue, or throat instead – those can be 'cured by amputating the cancerous part of the lips or tongue, or by inserting a tracheotomy tube to bypass the cancerous throat. And people can survive with amputated lips or tongue or a tube in their throat, so cigar smoking is not ‘deadly’. But many would prefer to avoid that situation. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/50 "2017-02-02T00:33:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > **bolding mine** > Cigar smokers get cancer of the lips, tongue, or throat instead – those can be 'cured by amputating the cancerous part of the lips or tongue, or by inserting a tracheotomy tube to bypass the cancerous throat. And people can survive with amputated lips or tongue or a tube in their throat, **so cigar smoking is not ‘deadly’**. But many would prefer to avoid that situation. You don’t think esophageal cancer is deadly?: > [@](#): > > Esophageal cancer is the seventh most common cause of cancer death among men. > **[Statistics for Esophageal Cancer | Esophageal Cancer Stats](https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/esophagus-cancer/about/key-statistics.html)** > > Read about the statistics for esophageal cancer here, including the American Cancer Society’s estimates for esophageal cancer in the US and the lifetime risk. Nicotine gets absorbed into the body through mucous membranes even without inhaling. Nicotine is a carcinogen. Cigar smoking increases the risk of cancer to other parts of he body, such as the pancreas. Inserting a tracheotomy tube to bypass the cancerous throat? As long as that can be done, the cancer won’t spread? ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/51 "2017-02-02T01:00:43Z")
Yeah, cancer sucks, no doubt. Some kinds can usually be treated easily if caught early, but all have the potential to be deadly and/or disfiguring. Head and neck cancer is absolutely no joke, even though treatments for it have significantly advanced in the past 10-20 years. We’ve recently lost several celebrities to it, for those who respond to that kind of pitch. One of the big things that sucks about smoking is that while you may dodge the ‘Big C’, you probably won’t dodge vascular disease (heart attacks, stroke, and claudication). If you do get to be so lucky, emphysema is almost sure to get you. While a rare few folks may appear to do well (choosing ‘none of the above’), far more will do the opposite (choosing ‘all of the above’). Lastly, if you see smoking as a preventative for Alzheimer’s, think again. Smoking is also associated with that. Better to take up sky-diving or scuba; you’ll have lots of fun, and when you forget something important, your worries will be over. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/52 "2017-02-02T01:32:55Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Only [67%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/26/the-terrifying-rate-at-which-smokers-die-from-smoking/?utm_term=.208c296de848) of smokers will die of a smoking-related illness. That means that one-third of all smokers will die of something unrelated, which explains George Burns, and your chain-smoking grandma who lived to 93. > > But that also means that if you smoke, there is a two-in-three chance that it will cause your death. Does it really make sense to do something that kills two out of every three people who do it? Seriously. If two out of three people who drank milk died from it, absolutely no one would drink it. Another consideration is that the effects of smoking, like COPD, emphysema, or oral cancer can prevent you from being able to eat well and exercise, which can in turn worsen your health even more. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/53 "2017-02-02T01:57:35Z")
Reading this thread reminds me of Joe Jackson (the musician, not the baseball player) who tried to start a [pro-smoking revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Jackson_(musician)#Other_activities) in his free time. He published a pamphlet which purported to debunk the notion that smoking was harmful; as I recall, it was a ludicrous mishmash of outdated citations and cherrypicked data. He also claimed that even if smoking did cause cancer, which it totally doesn’t, that didn’t matter because only old people got cancer. He’s only 62, but in his [recent photos](http://berendquest.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/joe-jackson-1.jpg) he looks about 80. Gee, I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/54 "2017-02-02T04:47:59Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You don’t think esophageal cancer is deadly?: > [Statistics for Esophageal Cancer | Esophageal Cancer Stats | American Cancer Society](http://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/esophageal-cancer/statistics) > > Nicotine gets absorbed into the body through mucous membranes even without inhaling. Nicotine is a carcinogen. Wikipedia cites a [2014 report](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine) from the Surgeon General that there’s no firm evidence linking nicotine to human cancer. Highly addictive. > [@erysichthon](#): > > Reading this thread reminds me of Joe Jackson (the musician, not the baseball player) who tried to start a [pro-smoking revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Jackson_(musician)#Other_activities) in his free time. He published a pamphlet which purported to debunk the notion that smoking was harmful; as I recall, it was a ludicrous mishmash of outdated citations and cherrypicked data. He also claimed that even if smoking did cause cancer, which it totally doesn’t, that didn’t matter because only old people got cancer. > > He’s only 62, but in his [recent photos](http://berendquest.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/joe-jackson-1.jpg) he looks about 80. Gee, I wonder why? What an asshole (and that Breaking Us In Two song was pseudo intellectual crap … but Steppin’ Out was real nice); but he really looks pretty good in the linked photo. Smooth skin, not many age spots. He sure doesn’t look 80. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/55 "2017-02-02T09:54:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Yes but heart disease and cancer are far and away the top two killers. > > [http://www.live-news24.com/assets/news\_photos/2016/04/23/image-4009.jpg](http://www.live-news24.com/assets/news_photos/2016/04/23/image-4009.jpg) > > Stroke is in the top five, but not as big. Either way the combo of heart disease, cancer and stroke makes up about ~60% of all causes of death. So it isn’t just smokers who die from these disorders. No, but smokers die from them earlier in life. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > My point fundamentally is I do not think dying at 78 from lung cancer is a travesty but living to 85 and developing alzheimers or ending up totally disabled is a success. The body fails with age, the longer you live the more parts of it will fail. But that is not what you are comparing. 78 is the average age for a male in the US. You are comparing dying at 78 from heart disease, cancer or a stroke with dying at 68 from heart disease, cancer or a stroke. In both cases, cancer or heart disease is on the average probably associated with a few years of reduced health and suffering beforehand. So at retirement age, the non-smoker on the average has a number of healthy years left in him to enjoy his retirement, and the smoker… doesn’t Wesley, smoking is bad for you and dying sooner is not a perk. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/56 "2017-02-02T14:26:51Z")
Regarding an earlier claim that half of people age 85 have Alzheimer’s: the actual dementia rate for those 85 and older is closer to one-third. As for smoking, it certainly isn’t that bad, from my perspective anyway. Add up all the new smoking-related cancer diagnoses from biopsies and resections of lung, esophagus, larynx, mouth, throat, kidney, bladder, liver, pancreas, stomach, cervix, colon, and rectum (along with acute myeloid leukemia), and we’re talking probably close to a third of my career income as a pathologist. Newer pathologists will see a gradual decline in that source of $$$, likely to be made up partially (by pulmonary pathologists, anyway) by intriguing new chronic lung (and possibly other) diseases among the vaping set. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/57 "2017-02-02T15:47:58Z")
I’ll tell you this; my grandmother spent her last eight or nine years in two old people homes, the first just a retirement complex for old people with no nursing support, the second an actual nursing home. There were a lot of old people around, and you know who you didn’t see? 1. Smokers, or 2. Fat people. Oh, I’m sure there was a fat person or two I don’t remember, and maybe one person was sneaking a smoke now and then. But the people enjoying life at the retirement home were, almost without exception, neither smokers nor obese. Take that for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/58 "2017-02-02T17:53:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ll tell you this; my grandmother spent her last eight or nine years in two old people homes, the first just a retirement complex for old people with no nursing support, the second an actual nursing home. There were a lot of old people around, and you know who you didn’t see? > > 1. Smokers, or > 2. Fat people. > > Oh, I’m sure there was a fat person or two I don’t remember, and maybe one person was sneaking a smoke now and then. But the people enjoying life at the retirement home were, almost without exception, neither smokers nor obese. Take that for what it’s worth. Not so much that fat people always die early, it’s that fat people tend to lose their appetite and get thin again. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/59 "2017-02-02T18:49:54Z")
Smoking also increases your chances of macular degeneration. ---
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smoking-really-that-bad/778723/60 "2017-02-03T17:51:41Z")
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