# Is smuggling the Elgin Marbles from the UK back to Greece in the realm of possibility **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001 "2008-04-26T22:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/1 "2008-04-26T22:57:15Z")
Is there any conceivable way to steal the [Elgin Marbles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles) from the British Museum and smuggle them back to Greece? They’re pretty hefty so I’m assuming you’d need large equipment. I have no idea how well they are guarded. Any dopers ever seen them in person? Based on news reports over the years in many of the smaller European countries it seems you can pretty much pop a lock after hours, and walk away with millions in valuable paintings. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/2 "2008-04-26T23:21:14Z")
I’ve seen them many times, and when I used to work at the Museum, spent happy times after hours sliding in my socks across the floor in their gallery. 🙂 They’d be very difficult to sneak out as they’re huge; I’m sorry I don’t have the dimensions for the gallery to give you a better idea what sort of complicated operation would be involved to shift them at all, let alone stealthily. There’s usually two or three wardens on shift in that gallery during the Museum’s opening times, but they’re there mainly to answer questions and to keep people from touching the bits within grabbing distance. You can see on this floor plan of the Museum the relative size of their room > **[Museum map](https://www.britishmuseum.org/visit/museum-map)** > > Information on where you can find paper and digital copies of the Museum map. They’re in 18. edited to remove too many 'gallery’s. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/3 "2008-04-26T23:28:56Z")
Greece operates eight type 209 submarines of more than 1200 t displacement; they might serve for transport once you got the Elgin Marbles to the coast… ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/4 "2008-04-26T23:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=tschild] Greece operates eight type 209 submarines of more than 1200 t displacement; they might serve for transport once you got the Elgin Marbles to the coast… [/QUOTE] Once you find a friendly harbour-master, and a populace willing to ignore such goings-on at unusual hours… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/5 "2008-04-26T23:33:16Z")
[QUOTE=astro] . Any dopers ever seen them in person? [/QUOTE] Yup. The British Museum actually made me drool a little - I may have reached a zenith of personal geekiness wandering around in there. Which, believe me, is saying something. The biggest ones are pretty darn large. My inclination would be to say that it’s just not possible en masse. Smaller pieces would no doubt be possible, but I doubt that museum security is easy to penetrate, considering the enormity of looted treasure it holds. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/6 "2008-04-27T01:12:19Z")
Frankly the thought is fucking absurd. The marbles were not stolen, they were removed with permission from the legal government in place at that time. Subsequently, the British government ended up paying for the removed marbles. It isn’t like Elgin wandered in, looked around and strolled off with several thousand tons of marble. now if Greece wants to BUY them back, and the museum would like to make some cash, that isn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/7 "2008-04-27T01:19:23Z")
The Marbles are fine right where they are. If the Greeks don’t like it, fuck 'em. They were stolen fair and square. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/8 "2008-04-27T01:32:54Z")
From the Wikipedia article, I found this to be compelling: > [@](#): > > Another argument for maintaining their location within the UK has been made by J. H. Merryman, Sweitzer Professor of Law at Stanford University and co-operating professor in the Stanford Art Department. He argued that if the Parthenon were actually being restored, there would be a moral argument for returning the Marbles to the temple whence they came, and thus restoring its integrity. However, the Greek plan is to transfer them from a museum in London to one in Athens. The sculptures which Elgin spared have now been taken down and put in the Acropolis Museum where the remaining caryatids from the Porch of the Maidens now peer at visitors from behind glass. “Is it more spiritually satisfying to see the Marbles in an Athenian museum gallery than one in London?” [44] ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/9 "2008-04-27T04:07:14Z")
Interestingly enough, the best preserved carytid from the Erecthion is in the British Museum… ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/10 "2008-04-27T04:31:03Z")
I apparently have no culture. I clicked the thread wondering why it would be hard to smuggle little round bits of glass. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/11 "2008-04-27T04:50:45Z")
I think, given their size, bulk, the security of the British Museum and the near-impossibility of spiriting them undetected out of the country, the answer to the OP is not only “No,” but “Hell, no.” Elgin may have cut a few corners getting them from Greece back in the day, but had he not done so they would long ago have been destroyed or degraded by war, vandalism or pollution. Now the British Museum has them fair and square, and I haven’t yet read a compelling argument for why they should go back to Greece. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/12 "2008-04-27T06:21:30Z")
Charlie Brown once proved he was a pretty good player at marbles. Greece should hire him to play the British Museum for them… ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/13 "2008-04-27T10:17:53Z")
[QUOTE=aruvqan] if Greece wants to BUY them back, and the museum would like to make some cash, that isn’t a problem. [/QUOTE] Yes it is. The British Museum is forbidden by law to sell any of its holdings without the permission of Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/14 "2008-04-27T14:26:59Z")
[QUOTE=pendgwen] I apparently have no culture. I clicked the thread wondering why it would be hard to smuggle little round bits of glass. [/QUOTE] 🙂 People really _do_ wander around that gallery and then ask where the actual marbles are, because they think they are playing marbles from Ancient Greece. We used to get some funny, but sweet, inquiries along these lines, especially from the little’uns. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/15 "2008-04-27T16:53:30Z")
I came in here wondering who had taken my marbles… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/16 "2008-04-28T05:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=aruvqan] Frankly the thought is fucking absurd. The marbles were not stolen, they were removed with permission from the legal government in place at that time. Subsequently, the British government ended up paying for the removed marbles. It isn’t like Elgin wandered in, looked around and strolled off with several thousand tons of marble. . [/QUOTE] This is an example of how authorities in the archeologically rich countries can go too far. Although they rightly demand repatriation of objects that were illegally taken out of their countries, in some cases they are also demanding items that were legally taken. There was an article in the New Yorker some time ago that mentioned how Greece wanted something back now that had been legally acquired in–1895. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/17 "2008-04-28T05:26:30Z")
I wonder why the Google adds are three for sober living communities, and one for a school for troubled kids? ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/18 "2008-04-28T10:16:32Z")
As a signatory to the 1970 Unesco [Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Property](http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html), the Greek government would be obliged to assist in the return of anything stolen from the British Museum. OK, so they might be very tempted to renege on the Unesco Convention if it was the Elgin Marbles that were involved. But claiming that the Marbles had been removed illegally from Greece in the first place, while, at the same time, disregarding the rules intended to prevent the illegal trade in antiquities would surely appear a touch inconsistent. Not exactly the best way to claim (or retain) the moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/19 "2008-04-29T12:55:39Z")
I heard a suggestion a while ago, I’ve no idea where. Copies of the marbles should be made and displayed side by side in a double-blind randomised fashion. A team from the British Museum and the Greek authorities would then be asked alternately, to select which of the two copies of each they would like. No one would know whether they got the original or the copy without extensive testing. Personally, I think the Greeks are just SOL. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001/20 "2008-04-29T13:00:48Z")
I have been to more than 50 countries around the world and have seen everything from the pyramids to the Alhambra to the Taj Mahal. The Elgin Marbles are simply the most impressive, awe-inspiring thing I have ever seen. They are perfectly displayed in the British Museum. It would be a crime to move them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-smuggling-the-elgin-marbles-from-the-uk-back-to-greece-in-the-realm-of-possibility/447001.md?page=2)