# Is society’s attitude towards crime irrational? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730 "2016-11-22T10:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/61 "2016-12-12T16:15:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Other countries have lower crime rates to begin with, and less diverse populations. I’d like recidivism rates to be lower in the US, but I am not aware of any programs that work on a large scale. If murder were as rare in the US as it is in Japan, we would have more resources to concentrate on rehabbing murderers, as well as a much stronger cultural background discouraging crime and deviations from the social norm in general. > > Saying ‘it works in Norway’ is fine. Will it work on some 20 year old in Newark with a criminal history as long as your arm? > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t know the answers, but when I read articles about private prisons like [this one](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer), and articles about public prisons that don’t seem to be much better, I tend to suspect that we’re not doing anywhere close to the best we can. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/62 "2016-12-12T17:47:53Z")
Given that the UK imports so many of the penal ideas from the US, I find it interesting that our reoffending rates tend to move toward the US model. This was not always the case. prior to 1992 our prison population was half what it is now, our reoffending rates were much lower - we also did not have US style sentencing, nor the US style probation system, now we do, reoffending is much higher, and our prison population is still rising, and yet crime is falling, why is that?One would expect with increasing prison populations there would be a corresponding increase in crime - the need to put them inside. To reiterate previous posts, it has been show that there is an association with smaller prisoners and lower reoffending rates, yet we are now well into opening a 2500 super prison, its supposed to be more efficient, I am not sure we need efficiency, I think we need effectiveness. I know exactly what will happen, this large prison at Wrexham is the poster child for future UK prison building, and it will not be allowed to be demonstrably failing, so prisoners will be carefully selected, the governor will be in a position to readily remove problem prisoners. Once this has been shown to be a ‘success’ -albeit highly manipulated to appear so, then it will be replicated but without the advantages that HMP Berwyn has = and we will see our prison population climb further. Politicians are the real problem, get politicians completely out of prisons, get them out of the judicial system, they are the most irrational people to be involved because they have absolutely no practical experience of prisons, nor anything in the court system, they actually do not have a clue of the sorts of social conditions that tend toward criminality and they act largely upon dogmas, and pet theories - this is not the sort of approach that prisons need. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/63 "2016-12-12T17:52:53Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have and do work with addicts and alcoholics many of who are ex convicts for the past 26 years. I am a non professional and my work is entirely on a support type basis. > > ``` > What I have found is that a large percentage of them respond to respect and acceptance from people they consider respectable. They are good detectors and very quick to spot character defects in people. When people of whom they consider of good character and integrity shows them respect and accepts them and spends time with them a very large number start showing a willingness to learn and get better. I would suggest men and women of good character offer whatever time they have available to working with convicts could make a big difference. These same convicts will step in and fill your shoes a few years later. > > ``` Of course their idea of good character might be very different from yours. Even people on the outside don’t agree on what character is these days. What signals character to ex-cons? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/64 "2016-12-12T19:42:06Z")
To a con, good character means someone who is straight talking, direct ad not trying to hint or imply meaning. You tell them what you are going to do, why you are going to do it, and then do it. You make a promise and keep it - so if one of them asks you to check up on something for him and you agree to do so, then you do it. Simple enough stuff I know, but many staff do not say what they mean and do not carry through a promise. You also do not make things personal, even if you feel you might despise a prisoner you do not let it affect how you treat them. Those are the sorts of things prisoners are more likely to respect - however you would be a fool to take it for granted too, no prisoner is trustworthy, some less so than others. Treat prisoners with respect but do not seen to e an easy push over. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/65 "2016-12-15T22:32:31Z")
What is a “drug offense” in these studies? In my experience with state and federal prosecutions, I have never, and I do mean never, seen anyone incarcerated for simple possession of an illegal controlled substance. The only exception is when someone is on probation/parole/supervised release upon conviction of another crime and test positive for drug use. Those people are sometimes locked up, not for the drug use, but because of the violation of the terms and conditions of their release. Selling illegal drugs? Absolutely. Possession of such a large amount of illegal drugs that the intent to sell can be inferred? Yes. Even if we wanted to “end the drug war” and legalize drugs, we still would not tolerate street dealers. I think we need a tighter definition of “drug offense” ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730/66 "2016-12-16T16:33:34Z")
Drug offenses also include the crimes carried out to obtain the funds to purchase drugs [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-society-s-attitude-towards-crime-irrational/772730.md?page=3)