# Is Solicitor General Olson worthy of respect? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112 "2004-06-25T00:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/1 "2004-06-25T00:52:01Z")
Theodore Oldon is resigning as Solicitor General. This is a man who I have disagreed with many times. Yet, as I try to seperate political views from personal views, he is a man who probably believed in most of the cases that he fought for. As many people know, his wife was on the flight which crashed into the Pentagon. His case in Bush v Gore was flawed, yet he did argue it well enough to win. In my opinion, every Bush case he has argued has been a setback for our country. My opinion is quite mixed on him. What are other dopers opinions of the man? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/2 "2004-06-25T01:40:25Z")
I want him killed, but before that tortured, but before that imprisoned for a long time, however before that humiliated. Gitmo: His plan. Perhaps I’m being unclear. I’m not well disposed to the man. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/3 "2004-06-25T02:12:07Z")
Did I mention, burnt in effigy? Anyway, I’ll put in an early bid and venture that he’s had a preview of the SC’s view or judgment of the cases he’s recently argued and that has persuaded him to quit. Judgment handed down very shortly so we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/4 "2004-06-25T02:17:41Z")
I don’t believe in capital punishment, so maybe he can be locked away in a tiny cell on a tropical island somewhere. Without a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/5 "2004-06-25T03:28:30Z")
Anyone else remember reports of the oral hearings of a several weeks ago? From memory:\* Judge: “What if the US decided to employ mild torture against the detained persons?” Olson: “We just don’t do that sort of thing”\* Lied before the Supreme Court on a matter of fact, that would have determined the question, then and there. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/6 "2004-06-25T03:30:25Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I don’t believe in capital punishment, so maybe he can be locked away in a tiny cell on a tropical island somewhere. Without a trial. Hey guys, like any other competent hit man, he was just doing his job. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/7 "2004-06-25T09:53:55Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember Ted Olson being involved in the **Arkansas Project** , a smear campaign to dig up dirt on Bill Clinton. During confirmation hearings he lied about his knowledge of the project and his part in it. This was the whole business of the state troopers who claimed Clinton used them to procure prostitutes, later the troopers recanted their stories, it was all made up via Ted Olson and the Arkansas Project. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/8 "2004-06-25T10:25:24Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Hey guys, like any other competent hit man, he was just doing his job. I’m now calm and can respectfully disagree. Firstly there is a common misconception that lawyers are guns for hire. It isn’t so. Lawyers are bound by ethical rules and have duties to the Court and the profession as well as the client. How so did O offend IMHO? 2 Ways. I’ve just read the transcript of the Oral argument in the Gitmo case. O was responsible for the outrageous argument that Gitmo was outside the reach of any court in the US. The function of this advice was to permit any conduct without restraint of law. Why wrong? Because it was obviously an argument that would not survive SC challenge as indeed the court indicated pretty damn quick. It was a “device” and a sham, an attempt to oust the jurisidiction of the SC. I knew that and I’m not _Solicitor Generalof the US._ Then there’s the lie/misrepresentation on a material matter in the Oral argument, the torture. O probably had a duty to correct his statement to the Court once the true facts were known. Did he draft a submission: “_I’m sorry I advised we don’t torture because we do. Please consider your decision accordingly_”? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/9 "2004-06-25T10:34:41Z")
So you oppose the use of torture and humiliation, unless you really really want someone tortured and humiliated? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/10 "2004-06-25T11:04:50Z")
Correction. I was wrong on the lying thing. As this article makes clear[it was Deputy Solicitor General, Paul Clement](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20040513.html). > [@](#): > > …As Justice Ginsburg pointed out, some regimes (though not ones the United States seeks to emulate) use torture to obtain intelligence information. “Suppose,” she asked Deputy Solicitor General Paul Clement, who was arguing the Administration’s position before the Court. "the Executive says ‘mild torture, we think, will help get this information?’ > > Clement did not hesitate in his answer: “Well, our executive doesn’t, and I think the fact that executive discretion in a war situation can be abused is not a good and sufficient reason for judicial micromanagement in overseeing that authority. You have to recognize that in situations where there is a war, where the government is on a war footing, that you have to trust the executive.” … **Brutus** I oppose torture and humiliation absolutely. For lawyers in high office who abuse their position on the other hand… I’m reminded of a painting _The Corrupt Judge_. (Title?) Anyone, anyone? JIT edit [Sometimes I get it right](http://users.pandora.be/bernard/Artpics/Cambyses.htm) . My apology, no image though. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/11 "2004-06-25T12:05:34Z")
He was made Solicitor General as a reward for his (and equally if not more so, his wife’s) relentless anti-Clinton activity, more than for his (alleged) merits as a lawyer. As said, many of the cases he has argued are downright un-American. Yet he got up there and argued them with a smile because he believed he was moving forward with the destructive, right wing ideology that he and all the rest of those people share. No reason to wish ill on him personally. Someday he will wake up and realize that in his own, small way, he helped his wife get killed. That moment will be all the comeuppance he deserves. (It does bear wondering whether some justices went easy on his arguments, in the months that followed 9/11.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/12 "2004-06-25T14:07:12Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > I’m now calm and can respectfully disagree. Firstly there is a common misconception that lawyers are guns for hire. It isn’t so. Lawyers are bound by ethical rules and have duties to the Court and the profession as well as the client. There was no intent to smear all lawyers and “hit men.” However if you have the psychological attributes to be a hit man but don’t want to actually kill anyone, legal training can be an advantage. This looks like an approximate picture of Olson. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/13 "2004-06-25T14:08:45Z")
In the first sentence make that “ **as** ‘hit men’.” ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/14 "2004-06-26T16:12:11Z")
[Facing Defeat?](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5175105/site/newsweek/) > [@](#): > > Lawyers within the Justice Department are now bracing for defeat in both the enemy-combatant and Guantanamo cases, both of which are expected to be decided before the Supreme Court ends its term at the end of the month, according to one conservative and politically well-connected lawyer. “They are 99 percent certain they are going to lose,” said the lawyer, who asked not to be identified. “It’s a very sobering realization.” ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-solicitor-general-olson-worthy-of-respect/252112/15 "2004-06-29T03:57:02Z")
As predicted! [Olson, you loser! The court doesn’t care how your wife died. May your sufferring endure.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263819)