# Is something REALLY rotten in the 9th Circuit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100 "2003-12-20T02:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/1 "2003-12-20T02:09:36Z")
One often hears advocates of the conservative orientation trot out the chestnut that the Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is something of a laughingstock at the Circuit Court of Appeals Club because of its high reversal rate by the Supremes. Pardon the arched eyebrow, but as I gradually pickle with age, I’ve found that I’ve become a little suspicious of many of the Articles Of Faith among both ends of the spectrum. So I turned to Google, and got the predictable blogosphere squealing about the “Ninth Circus” and such. It’s been pretty much useless. I did, however, come up with a [passably useful analysis](http://www.centerforindividualfreedom.org/legal/9th_circuit.htm) that raises several seemingly contradictory points, to wit: > [@](#): > > Notably, the 9th Circuit accounted for both 30 percent of the cases (24 of 80) and 30 percent of the reversals (18 of 59) the Supreme Court decided by full written opinions this term. In addition, the 9th Circuit was responsible for more than a third (35%, or 8 of 23) of the High Court’s unanimous reversals that were issued by published opinions. Thus, on the whole, the 9th Circuit’s rulings accounted for more reversals this past term than all the state courts across the country combined and represented nearly half of the overturned judgments (45%) of the federal appellate courts. > > … > > Although the 9th Circuit’s caseload comprised approximately 17% of the federal appellate cases terminated in the year ending March 31, 2002, its decisions accounted for close to half (43%) of all the federal appellate decisions reviewed by the Supreme Court this past term. > > … > > These continuing negative trends are certainly not reflective of the competency of the 9th Circuit’s entire bench, which includes some of the most respected appellate judges in the country. It is, however, indicative of a judicial philosophy to which some 9th Circuit judges adhere. That the authors came to _that_ conclusion should be obvious from the URL. However, they admit > [@](#): > > It is true that the overall reversal rate of the 9th Circuit (75%) was lower than that of other federal appellate courts — most notably the 4th, 5th, 8th and 10th Circuits, which were all reversed 100% of the time this past term. But… > [@](#): > > the High Court decided only eight cases from the 4th, 5th, 8th and 10th Circuits combined (three from the 4th, three from the 5th, one from the 8th, and one from the 10th), compared with the 24 cases the Supreme Court took up from the 9th. Thus, the 9th Circuit’s lower overall reversal rate does not demonstrate the justices’ greater agreement with the decisions of the 9th Circuit, but is likely attributable to that circuit’s much higher review rate. Rather than do both a statistical and qualitative analysis of Appeals Court reversal rates on my own (which I’m much too drunk for at the moment) I ask the barristers and people who should otherwise know better of the SDMB, what’s up? Is the 9th _really_ the cesspool of judicial activism that some claim it to be? Can the reversal rate be explained away by the size of the Circuit? Et cetera? I’ll leave y’all to hammer it out, and ask clarifying questions when I become befuddled. I probably wouldn’t be any good it this even if I were sober. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/2 "2003-12-20T02:39:19Z")
Well, the only statistic missing is the number of cases heard by individual courts. If they handle a similar case load then that works against the 9th. If the 9th hears more then its a wash. They get a lot of publicity because of the nature of their cases. I’m not a big fan of legislative Jurists but I too would like to know what’s what. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/3 "2003-12-20T04:46:06Z")
I think the 9th Circuit is the largest appeals court in the country and has the largest jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/4 "2003-12-21T04:39:07Z")
**Marley23** > [@](#): > > I think the 9th Circuit is the largest appeals court in the country and has the largest jurisdiction. Maybeso, Marley, but the decisions handed down by the sometimes kangeroo court of the 9th, are oft times laughingly overturned unanimously by the ultimate and most final, Supreme Court. Bless their hearts. The point is that they are mucho leftcoasto, and therefore they are mucho leftcoasto out of touch with mainstream Americans like some of you and me. These silly pretentious guys and gals should go out and get a real job and stop pretending that they are the grand hip oracles of things and thoughts that are yet to come. But I bet they won’t. \_\_\_\_\_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/5 "2003-12-21T04:55:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > **Marley23 Maybeso, Marley, but the decisions handed down by the sometimes kangeroo court of the 9th, are oft times laughingly overturned unanimously by the ultimate and most final, Supreme Court.** Yeah 8 were… but so were 15 other apellate decisions. If you weren’t so busy being a smug “mainstream american” you might have realized that the entire point related to the proportion of cases, and not the mere fact that a certain number were laughed out by the venerable scotii. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/6 "2003-12-21T05:54:36Z")
I also wonder if part of it isn’t the nature of the cases that come before the 9th. That is to say, Californians seem to be a more litigious lot than, say, North Carolinians. That’s a totally anecdotal feeling, mind you. But I notice that the West Coast seems more willing to file environmental or social oriented challenges than the East Coast. Combine that with the large area that the 9th covers and it may be why more cases of these types come from them. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/7 "2003-12-21T06:04:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > **These silly pretentious guys and gals should go out and get a real job and stop pretending that they are the grand hip oracles of things and thoughts that are yet to come.** Is “federal judge” not acceptable employment anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/8 "2003-12-21T06:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ravenman \* > \*\*Is “federal judge” not acceptable employment anymore? \*\* Only if you agree with their ruling on some issue. Otherwise they’re freeloading political suckups. 😉 Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Polly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Polly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/9 "2003-12-21T19:46:37Z")
Doesn’t the Supreme Court take cases that it’s more likely were wrongly decided? Isn’t that the whole point? So wouldn’t it make sense that cases that come before them often get reversed? Is there anyplace that lists the statistics for the number of cases that the court takes, and how many it reverses? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/10 "2003-12-21T20:16:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > \*\*mainstream Americans like…me. \*\* If we ever needed a “rolling on the floor” smilie… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![hypnoboth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hypnoboth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hypnoboth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/11 "2003-12-21T22:40:25Z")
Don’t forget that the Supremes most often take cert where there is **disagreement** between precedents among the various circuits. This will happen most often with the 9th because it is the largest circuit, and theirs will be the remanding jurisdiction in a majority of cases because it is the slowest (being the largest). This aside from the fact that they are a bunch of nutballs. ---
**Author:** ![Pencil\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Pencil\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pencil_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-something-really-rotten-in-the-9th-circuit/220100/12 "2003-12-21T23:22:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polly \* > \*\*Doesn’t the Supreme Court take cases that it’s more likely were wrongly decided? Isn’t that the whole point? So wouldn’t it make sense that cases that come before them often get reversed? > > Is there anyplace that lists the statistics for the number of cases that the court takes, and how many it reverses? \*\* From the [Rules of the Supreme Court of the United States](http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/rules/) > [@](#): > > Rule 10. Considerations Governing Review on > Certiorari > > Review on a writ of certiorari is not a matter of right, but > of judicial discretion. A petition for a writ of certiorari will > be granted only for compelling reasons. The following, al- > though neither controlling nor fully measuring the Court’s > discretion, indicate the character of the reasons the Court > considers: > > (a) a United States court of appeals has entered a deci- > sion in conflict with the decision of another United > States court of appeals on the same important matter; > has decided an important federal question in a way that > conflicts with a decision by a state court of last resort; > or has so far departed from the accepted and usual > course of judicial proceedings, or sanctioned such a de- > parture by a lower court, as to call for an exercise of > this Court’s supervisory power; > (b) a state court of last resort has decided an impor- > tant federal question in a way that conflicts with the > decision of another state court of last resort or of a > United States court of appeals; > © a state court or a United States court of appeals > has decided an important question of federal law that > has not been, but should be, settled by this Court, or > has decided an important federal question in a way that > conflicts with relevant decisions of this Court. > > A petition for a writ of certiorari is rarely granted when the > asserted error consists of erroneous factual findings or the > misapplication of a properly stated rule of law.