# Is Soros actually actively trying to change U.S. policy? Or what is the basis of the hatred? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682 "2018-10-29T18:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/61 "2018-10-30T04:19:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Meanwhile over at Fox Business News, Lou Dobbs interviews someone who claims that the migrant caravan in southern Mexico was being funded and directed by the “Soros-occupied State Department.” 😕 Have these people simply not noticed that **their guys are running the government now**? They seem able to switch effortlessly between gloating about how their irresistibly powerful right-wing leadership is steamrollering the ineffectual “libtard cuck” opposition, and whining about how they’re still being held helpless under the jackboot of the evil liberal “Deep State”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/62 "2018-10-30T04:25:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Banning guns for one. Do you have a cite that “banning guns” is actually a “political aim” of George Soros? I mean, if you’re using “banning guns” in its literal sense and not just as hyperbole for “increasing some restrictions on guns and encouraging private divestment from arms manufacturing”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/63 "2018-10-30T04:36:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Do you have a cite that “banning guns” is actually a “political aim” of George Soros? I mean, if you’re using “banning guns” in its literal sense and not just as hyperbole for “increasing some restrictions on guns and encouraging private divestment from arms manufacturing”. Sure. [Open Society: Gun Control in the United States (pdf)](https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/sites/default/files/GunReport.pdf) > [@Page 12](#): > > Pre-1986 machine guns and pre-1994 assault weapons should be banned from private purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/64 "2018-10-30T04:57:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure. [Open Society: Gun Control in the United States (pdf)](https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/sites/default/files/GunReport.pdf) Oh, I see: by “banning guns” you meant “banning the private purchase of a small subset of guns manufactured a quarter-century ago or more, some of whose more modern counterparts are already banned from private purchase”. Not that you can’t still be opposed to that much more restricted political aim if you want, of course. Just that it’s rather different from what the more sweeping term “banning guns” seems to imply. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/65 "2018-10-30T05:04:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh, I see: by “banning guns” you meant “banning the private purchase of a small subset of guns manufactured a quarter-century ago or more, some of whose more modern counterparts are already banned from private purchase”. > > Not that you can’t still be opposed to that much more restricted political aim if you want, of course. Just that it’s rather different from what the more sweeping term “banning guns” seems to imply. _shrug_ that’s ‘“banning guns” in its literal sense’. You asked, and you received. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/66 "2018-10-30T05:14:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > _shrug_ that’s ‘“banning guns” in its literal sense’. Well, it’s “banning **some** guns”. Usually when people talk about “banning” something _tout court_, they mean getting totally rid of **everything** that falls in that category. E.g., when people call for banning human trafficking, they don’t mean only eliminating, say, the human trafficking of Eastern European girls between 16 and 19 years of age. If they did, their use of the more general phrase “ban human trafficking” would likely be seen as rather hyperbolic and misleading. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/67 "2018-10-30T05:29:00Z")
Again, _shrug_ I don’t feel constrained to use the word “ban” the way you want it to be used. Neither does the Open Society, apparently, since it’s right there in black and white on their website: “should be banned”. More recently, [WaPo reported](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/students-take-charge-of-gun-safety-movement-with-some-help-from-existing-groups/2018/02/20/eeeb8c58-166d-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0323cee995e2) this: > [@](#): > > Soros, who has donated to the Brady Campaign in the past, fully supports the Florida students’ cause … Their cause, of course, is to [ban guns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Rdsi2l2HM). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/68 "2018-10-30T05:55:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Have these people simply not noticed that **their guys are running the government now**? They seem able to switch effortlessly between gloating about how their irresistibly powerful right-wing leadership is steamrollering the ineffectual “libtard cuck” opposition, and whining about how they’re still being held helpless under the jackboot of the evil liberal “Deep State”. The bigoted guest on the Fox News channel wasn’t just some wacko. He was Director of Investigations and Research at Judicial Watch. Also a member of their board of directors. Judicial Watch pushed the Kavanaugh appointment in a big way. Speaking of the US foreign policy, Radio Televisión Martí, the US government arm in charge of broadcasts to Cuba, scooped up some material from Judicial Watch and characterized Soros as a, “Mulitimillionaire Jew”. I suppose Soros is that. Here’s are some quotes from the piece, translated from the Spanish: “George Soros has his eye on Latin America. But Judicial Watch, an American investigative legal group, also has its eye on Soros and what it sees as his lethal influence to destroy democracies,” the narrator of the segment says in the video, according to an English translation published by Mother Jones. “It describes him as a millionaire investor and stock market speculator who exploits capitalism and Wall Street to finance anti-system movements that fill his pockets.” The video also refers to Soros as “the multimillionaire Jew of Hungarian origin whose fortune is estimated at $8 billion” and “a non-believing Jew of flexible morals,” according to Mother Jones. [US Government-Run Network Pulls Segment Calling Soros ‘Multimillionaire Jew’ - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/george-soros-multimillionaire-jew-radio-cuba) The video segment was yanked by Radio Television Marti, but this gives an idea of the anti-Semitic slant to conservative attacks on Soros. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/69 "2018-10-30T12:35:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Again, _shrug_ I don’t feel constrained to use the word “ban” the way you want it to be used. Neither does the Open Society, apparently, since it’s right there in black and white on their website: “should be banned”. > > More recently, [WaPo reported](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/students-take-charge-of-gun-safety-movement-with-some-help-from-existing-groups/2018/02/20/eeeb8c58-166d-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0323cee995e2) this: > > Their cause, of course, is to [ban guns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Rdsi2l2HM). How do possibly equate banning “all” guns with banning “some guns”? You are aware that we live in a shades of gray world, not a black & white one, yes? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/70 "2018-10-30T12:55:39Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > So I’ve tried a search both here as well as the internet, but I can’t find the original basis. My partner used to work for Soros’s Open Society Institute and so I am generally familiar with him and the dislike historically. > > But what is the basis (or current interest) by Fox and the GOP in defaming him at all costs? Is there any facts that connect him in any way to the caravan? immigration debate? funding of questionable groups? Conservatives are angry because billionaire activism was assumed to be the exclusive domain of conservatives. How could a billionaire like Soros or Steyer have progressive values? Wasn’t that the whole point of Citizens United - that conservative billionaires could reshape politics forever? And now you have these rich people with a conscience fucking it all up! ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/71 "2018-10-30T13:14:34Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Rich people who don’t support right-wing people and causes are considered a traitor to their class. It’s as ridiculous and stupid as that. > > That’s it. > > Period. > > Nothing more to say. This actually isn’t true, at least not in my neck of the woods. Wealthy New Yorkers are traditionally liberal -read Tom Wolfe’s Radical Chic sometime. In my experience about 75% of them are reliable Democrats, 15% have liberal views on social policy but vote Republican because it makes them richer and 5% are conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/72 "2018-10-30T13:26:16Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I find this pretty odious: > > [https://www.dailywire.com/news/37703/media-tout-jewish-leaders-pittsburgh-telling-trump-ben-shapiro](https://www.dailywire.com/news/37703/media-tout-jewish-leaders-pittsburgh-telling-trump-ben-shapiro) > > One of Soros’ organizations basically impersonated the Pittsburgh Jewish community to blame Trump for for the shooting, and suggest he wasn’t welcome in Pittsburgh. The narrative got picked up by several news sources. > > But they don’t speak for anybody and in fact the head of the Synagogue that got shot up said he would welcome Trump. > > So, this kind of shit. That would be his son’s organization. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/73 "2018-10-30T14:06:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …how exactly is "“The main obstacle to a stable and just world is the United States” an “anti US” statement? > > I know what he said. But stating “the main reason that the world is not stable and just is due to the US government and its policies” is not an “anti-US” statement: especially if that statement happens to be true. I think we’re simply arguing semantics. If you were to go to the pit and say “The main impediment to reasonable discourse is \'s obtuseness.” I think that it’s reasonable to say that the post is anti-\. One can advance an apologetic that it’s actually \'s obtuseness that you’re against, but I think that if \ were to take the claim as an attack on him, it would not be an unreasonable stance. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for that quote from 15 years back, but I believe the question pertains to his current actions. The question actually is asking why the right wants to defame him. The historical context is exactly why they do so. The rise of Soros as the buggaboo of the right did not happen overnight. He has been vilified by the right for many years and much of it happened during the first decade of this millennium. It’s like asking the question “Why do we hate Nazis?” and when someone brings up the Holocaust saying, “That was 75 years ago, it’s ancient history.” While technically true, I think that the history does much to inform our current opinion of the ideology. (And before it gets brought up, No, I am not attempting to conflate Soros with Nazis. He’s pretty much exactly the opposite. I’m only saying that past history impacts attitudes of today, exactly as one would expect and that viewing the history of those attitudes is appropriate in this and in many contexts.) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/74 "2018-10-30T14:18:44Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > I think we’re simply arguing semantics. …are you playing devils advocate, or is this what you genuinely believe? > [@](#): > > If you were to go to the pit and say “The main impediment to reasonable discourse is \'s obtuseness.” I think that it’s reasonable to say that the post is anti-\. I don’t think that would be reasonable at all. > [@](#): > > One can advance an apologetic that it’s actually \'s obtuseness that you’re against, I’m not “against Bob.” > [@](#): > > but I think that if \ were to take the claim as an attack on him, it would not be an unreasonable stance. If Bob can’t stand a bit of constructive critique: that’s Bob’s problem, not mine. I’m certainly not anti-Bob. Bob has to view my words through a “filter” to interpret it as “anti Bob” but it clearly wasn’t my intent, and in context that should be plain for all to see. It is unreasonable, especially in context, to characterize the statement “The main obstacle to a stable and just world is the United States” as an anti-US sentiment. If the best you can do to show that it \*might \*be anti-US is to construct a ridiculous hypothetical then you don’t really have a case at all. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/75 "2018-10-30T14:24:05Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …are you playing devils advocate, or is this what you genuinely believe? > > I don’t think that would be reasonable at all. > > I’m not “against Bob.” > > If Bob can’t stand a bit of constructive critique: that’s Bob’s problem, not mine. I’m certainly not anti-Bob. Bob has to view my words through a “filter” to interpret it as “anti Bob” but it clearly wasn’t my intent, and in context that should be plain for all to see. > > It is unreasonable, especially in context, to characterize the statement “The main obstacle to a stable and just world is the United States” as an anti-US sentiment. If the best you can do to show that it \*might \*be anti-US is to construct a ridiculous hypothetical then you don’t really have a case at all. Not playing devil’s advocate. I know that if your post said “The main obstacle to a stable and just world is senoy.” I would take that as being ‘anti-senoy.’ Maybe if I said it about you, you would go. “Oh, no. That’s not against me at all. That’s simply a neutral statement of fact.” I would be willing to bet though, that I’d get a warning from the Mods for launching a personal attack. I don’t think that they would be unreasonable for issuing it either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/76 "2018-10-30T14:34:54Z")
Heck, I’m actively trying to change US policy, too. As, I assume, are most of the other posters in this thread. Soros (like Buffett, and the Kochs, and Adelson, and so on) is just more effective at it than we are. As for Soros’ statement that the US is the cause of instability in the world, that strikes me as both unambiguously anti-US and unambiguously patriotic. He’s trying to make this country better. That’s exactly what patriotism is. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/77 "2018-10-30T14:42:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Heck, I’m actively trying to change US policy, too. As, I assume, are most of the other posters in this thread. Soros (like Buffett, and the Kochs, and Adelson, and so on) is just more effective at it than we are. > > As for Soros’ statement that the US is the cause of instability in the world, that strikes me as both unambiguously anti-US and unambiguously patriotic. He’s trying to make this country better. That’s exactly what patriotism is. You aren’t a billionaire who’s words and actions are published by the press repeatedly and who can call a press conference anytime you want to get your views out. You don’t contribute large checks to various organizations you support, which magnifies his own participation quite a bit more than your’s… YOU think he’s trying to make the country better, but that’s because you probably mainly align with what he’s doing and how he’s doing it. If you were opposed to his vision or his methods you’d almost certainly be less sanguine about the man. Personally, I don’t have a dog in this fight…I don’t really care for Soros, but I don’t have any great antipathy towards him either and generally don’t pay much attention to him one way or another. But recall what the original question in the OP was. Is he trying to change US policy? Certainly. Is there a basis for the hatred? If you are a conservative and on the right then there is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/78 "2018-10-30T14:45:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Conservatives are angry because billionaire activism was assumed to be the exclusive domain of conservatives. … I have never met a conservative that assumed that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/79 "2018-10-30T14:47:19Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > How do possibly equate banning “all” guns with banning “some guns”? … I’m not equating the two. I didn’t use the words “all” or “some”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682/80 "2018-10-30T14:48:30Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Not playing devil’s advocate. I know that if your post said “The main obstacle to a stable and just world is senoy.” I would take that as being ‘anti-senoy.’ …if senoy were the main obstacle to a stable and just world: why would you take that statement of fact as “anti-senoy?” > [@](#): > > Maybe if I said it about you, you would go. “Oh, no. That’s not against me at all. That’s simply a neutral statement of fact.” I would be willing to bet though, that I’d get a warning from the Mods for launching a personal attack. I don’t think that they would be unreasonable for issuing it either. This entire conversation seems to be going over your head. So I’ll make it crystal clear for you. You originally claimed George Soros said something that he didn’t say. When asked for a cite: you produced a quote that was materially different from how you originally characterized it. You claimed that the exact quote was "“The main obstacle to a stable and just world is the United States.” I actually believed you when you said that. But I’ve just gone and checked your cite and he did \*\*not \*\*say that. It is not an exact quote. That was the question put to him by the interviewer. What he actually said was pretty fucking nuanced. And a mod would not consider the following: George Soros “Yes, but it happens to coincide with the prevailing opinion in the world. And I think that’s rather shocking for Americans to hear. The United States sets the agenda for the world. And the rest of the world has to respond to that agenda. By declaring a “war on terror” after September the 11th, we set the wrong agenda for the world. This is something that people in America find difficult to understand because war seems like the natural response” To be a personal attack. So I really don’t know what sort of game you are playing here. Characterizing that statement as “anti-US” is misleading. You are repeating talking points. Repeating propaganda. That’s not cool. You should really stop doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-soros-actually-actively-trying-to-change-u-s-policy-or-what-is-the-basis-of-the-hatred/823682.md?page=5)