# Is "Southern Culture" inherently racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 5, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125 "2021-09-05T03:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/1 "2021-09-05T03:29:37Z")
I’m not from the south. I am not defending the confederate flag or Confederate monuments. I am wondering if a white person can be proud of their way of life in 2021. The foods they eat. The social norms (as long as they aren’t racist) that exist. The way they speak. Is it any different than a Bostonian being proud of being Bostonian? or Brooklyn? Or Portland? Can one listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd without being a racist? I do like Freebird. But of course the made use of the CF. Antebellum Architecture isn’t my favorite type of Architecture, but It is nice in its own way. I was confused why Lady Antebellum changed their name. Is every aspect of white southern culture racist? Surely there are white liberal southerners that like fried okra and call people Miss and Ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/2 "2021-09-05T07:11:53Z")
Didn’t you answer your own question, several times? ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/3 "2021-09-05T07:13:57Z")
well perhaps I did, but didn’t realize it. could you expand on that? ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/4 "2021-09-05T07:23:55Z")
> [@Dukes of Hazard meet their match](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-meet-their-match/950017): > > Well, them Duke boys sure made a mess of trouble for old Boss Hogg, but they shouldn’t of oughta gone up against climate change. [Bye bye, General Lee](https://movieweb.com/dukes-of-hazzard-general-lee-car-crushed-hurricane-ida) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/5 "2021-09-05T08:05:31Z")
Not sure if I misunderstand the OP, but the racist parts could be omitted and the remaining 95% would be as Southern as ever. Nothing racist about eating collard greens, pecan pie, mint juleps or anything else Southern, nothing wrong with being fanatical about SEC football, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/6 "2021-09-05T13:22:16Z")
In the modern epoch everything is racist. The word “Latino” is racist, although it is preferred by Latinos. The word “Black” is racist. So is “Oriental.” Capitalism is racist. History is racist. Everything is racist and if you do not realize it, you too are racist. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/7 "2021-09-05T13:48:38Z")
_ **Southern Culture on the Skids** _ is a great band. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/8 "2021-09-05T14:05:57Z")
It’s definitely not racist to enjoy gumbo and other dishes with okra, which is though to have originated in Africa and likely was brought to this country by slaves, who taught Creoles some of its use in cookiing. I grow a lot of southern gardening staples here in Kentucky (crepe myrtles, southern magnolia etc.) and there’s nothing wrong with that (note that a number of such plants closely identified with the South were originally imported from elsewhere). I do maintain a balance of northern and southern catalpas (I have three of each). “nothing wrong with being fanatical about SEC football” Well, nothing wrong in a _racist_ sense, although the U. of Mississippi team name (“Rebels”) is problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/9 "2021-09-05T14:27:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s definitely not racist to enjoy gumbo and other dishes with okra, which is though to have originated in Africa and likely was brought to this country by slaves, who taught Creoles some of its use in cookiing. I think the racist part is that even now, a lot of people will not acknowledge the contributions that were made by slaves to these sorts of cultural elements. It’s not your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s fried chicken recipe, it’s actually your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s _slave cook’s_ fried chicken recipe. So, sure, it’s possible to enjoy these elements of southern culture without being racist, but as a practical matter, with a lot of people, there’s still an on-going element of racism underlying it all. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/10 "2021-09-05T14:37:58Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I think the racist part is that even now, a lot of people will not acknowledge the contributions that were made by slaves to these sorts of cultural elements. It’s not your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s fried chicken recipe, it’s actually your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s _slave cook’s_ fried chicken recipe You’re assuming facts not in evidence. The Antebellum South was not the monolithic slave-holding culture that people such as yourself assume it to be. > So, according to the Census of 1860, 30.8 percent of the free families in the confederacy owned slaves. [https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/8.10.20.pdf](https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/8.10.20.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/11 "2021-09-05T14:54:16Z")
It’s misleading to suggest that racism is strictly relegated to slave ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/12 "2021-09-05T14:59:26Z")
It could be just as accurate to say that only 30.8 percent of free families in the confederacy had wealth and were land owners. This does **not in any way support** that 69.2 percent who were not owners were against slavery or the oppression of blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/13 "2021-09-05T15:12:31Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > This does **not in any way support** that 69.2 percent who were not owners were against slavery or the oppression of blacks. But it’s not like everyone in the North was against slavery or the oppression of Black people, either. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/14 "2021-09-05T15:30:28Z")
True, but that is also not an argument against the 30.8 percent premise. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/15 "2021-09-05T15:52:32Z")
This seems rather familiar to a (relatively) recent thread - > [@About the South's glorious past](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672): > > First off, as a many generational southerner, I do feel it is past time for Confederate monuments to come down. However, as a southerner, I do take umbrage with the near consistent speak that southern pride is based in racism. I believe the for the most part southern pride is the result of being looked down upon by the rest of the country. Southern/redneck jokes are common. Ironically, we have been posed to be inferior and you wonder why southerners take offense. Most here understand the w… For anyone wanting a quick read-through. My hot-take on the OP is that “Southern Culture” in and of itself isn’t racist. Because it’s (like a lot of things) too broad a term. Nawlin’s culture, built on French/Acadian cultural hybridization along with a large number of other factors, is different from what you might see in Florida, Mississippi, or Texas, although they’d all arguably be a part of ‘Southern Culture’. For that matter, many African-Americans in the South take deep pride in the way that their food culture is often the prominent one (even if they are angry that their role in creating it is often ignored). I will say (as is noted in the other thread and similar threads) that the term _Southern Pride_ is more problematic, in that the vast majority of people who use that term see it as an excuse to white-wash (in more ways than one!) the absolutely racist moments of the past to fit a glorious lost culture. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/16 "2021-09-05T15:58:26Z")
There are plenty of good things in Southern culture. Southern cuisine, for instance, is the best on the continent (aside from sweet tea, but even if your tastes are poor enough to enjoy that, that’s still not racist). And there’s plenty of great music from the South. If you’re Southern, and proud of those parts of your heritage, well, you should be. The problem, though, is that when folks talk about “Southern heritage”, or “Southern pride”, or the like, they’re almost always restricting themselves entirely to the racist part. If you wanted a real symbol of Southern heritage, it wouldn’t be the flag of treason; it’d be a bowl of grits. ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/17 "2021-09-05T19:57:43Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I think the racist part is that even now, a lot of people will not acknowledge the contributions that were made by slaves to these sorts of cultural elements. It’s not your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s fried chicken recipe, it’s actually your great-to-the-fifth Grandmother’s _slave cook’s_ fried chicken recipe. > > So, sure, it’s possible to enjoy these elements of southern culture without being racist, but as a practical matter, with a lot of people, there’s still an on-going element of racism underlying it all. This comment expresses my concern and reason for my post. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/18 "2021-09-05T22:43:36Z")
My rule of thumb is that if it’s a part of “Southern culture” that Black Southerners enjoy just as much as white ones, there are probably no racist connotations implied in liking it. If it’s a part of “Southern culture” whose appeal seems to be entirely restricted to white Southerners, might be worthwhile asking ourselves why that is. ETA: Y’know, if it hadn’t been for anti-Reconstruction efforts and “Lost Cause” “Restoration” and Jim Crow and everything, we would probably have like a whole extra century of biracial and non-race-specific “Southern culture” accumulated by now, and the antebellum South would probably be a much more minor part of it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/19 "2021-09-05T23:12:20Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > I’m not from the south. I am not defending the confederate flag or Confederate monuments. > > I am wondering if a white person can be proud of their way of life in 2021. The foods they eat. The social norms (as long as they aren’t racist) that exist. The way they speak. Is it any different than a Bostonian being proud of being Bostonian? or Brooklyn? Or Portland? > > Can one listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd without being a racist? I do like Freebird. But of course the made use of the CF. Antebellum Architecture isn’t my favorite type of Architecture, but It is nice in its own way. I was confused why Lady Antebellum changed their name. > > Is every aspect of white southern culture racist? Surely there are white liberal southerners that like fried okra and call people Miss and Ma’am. It’s not inherently racist to enjoy stuff that mostly white people like such as Lynyrd Skynrd, Dave Mathews Band, How I Met Your Mother, the Boston Celtics or whatever. Regardless of what region of the country it comes from. What I do think is inherently racist about Southern Culture is that it often seems tinged with an underlying Old Money elitism, ultra-conservative politics, and nostalgia for Antebellum affectations. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125/20 "2021-09-05T23:19:30Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > Is every aspect of white southern culture racist? Surely there are white liberal southerners that like fried okra and call people Miss and Ma’am. Yes, that exists. But the thing is that most of what you consider “southern culture” is actually Black, or came from Native Americans. Who do you think taught the white folk about grits and okra anyhow? It’s kind of racist to pretend that stuff is “white”. > [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > I am wondering if a white person can be proud of their way of life in 2021. The foods they eat. The social norms (as long as they aren’t racist) that exist. The way they speak. Is it any different than a Bostonian being proud of being Bostonian? or Brooklyn? Or Portland? You know, I’m sure there are T-shirts that say “I’m proud to be from Boston”. But I don’t know any region in the US that goes around obsessively saying “we’re number one, or at least we’re as good as you.” I don’t know anybody in the Midwest who would start a bar fight if somebody said Bob Seger sucks. White southerners need to: 1. Realize that southern culture is, in large part, Black culture. 2. Stop being such babies about what everyone else thinks about their region. You’re not special, except maybe especially sensitive. 3. Stop doing stuff like “apart from all the racism, the south is actually blah blah blah.” We get it, white people are sensitive about racism, but y’know, slavery and racism are the bedrock of southern heritage and can’t really be untangled from sweet tea and biscuits. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-southern-culture-inherently-racist/950125.md?page=2)