# Is "squaring up" defined in the legal code? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2024, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635 "2024-07-02T15:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/21 "2024-07-04T02:24:39Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > So as an onlooker you see two assholes yelling and then one threw a punch and that’s who you tattle on to the cops. But if you were in that conflict the person striking first might well know for certain violence is going to happen and in an act of true committed self-defense strikes first. The posture told him it was going to be a fight and no one needs to wait for the broken nose. Even if the premise were true, which I doubt, good luck on convincing a jury of that. If there are eyewitnesses who said you threw the first punch, then you would have the burden of proof to demonstrate not only that your premise is true, but also that this subtle movement took place. The jury would hear from other witnesses that you threw the first punch. IANAL, so this is all speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/22 "2024-07-04T02:43:58Z")
“Assume the attitude of a person about to fight” is one of the first definitions of square up and I’m flabbergasted some of you have never heard it used that way before. In most states, they use a reasonable person standard when it comes to whether the use of force is justified. i.e. Would a reasonable person be justified in using violence to defend themselves against an attack? If someone _squares up_ or puts up their dukes, it’s not unreasonable for them to believe an attack is imminent and take appropriate action. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/23 "2024-07-04T03:07:55Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > To me, “squaring up” means we’ve settled outstanding debts, or how to split the tab for lunch, etc. I’ve heard that usage, too. But i literally square up 6-7 times a week (in a square dance) so that’s what comes to mind first. 😃 I’ve heard of boxers squaring off, i think. But that’s formal, and they both do it, it’s not a unilateral thing. I’m pretty dubious the courts would recognize “squaring up” to attack as a general concept, although you might be able to convince a jury that you were under imminent threat, which is a more general defense. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/24 "2024-07-04T03:13:22Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > “Assume the attitude of a person about to fight” is one of the first definitions of square up Dictionary. Com gives that as the 5th of six definitions. > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/square-up)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! And the examples it gives are more metaphorical, and it says they mean “square off”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/25 "2024-07-04T13:05:46Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Even if the premise were true, which I doubt, good luck on convincing a jury of that. You’d need to convince the jury not only that the other person did square up, but that you didn’t square up first. Which would be a very difficult thing to prove, given that you punched first, and therefore were presumably ready to punch first. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/26 "2024-07-04T13:29:55Z")
We just had this thread on “squaring up.” > [@Please decipher this saying on a t-shirt](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-decipher-this-saying-on-a-t-shirt/1002737/1): > > In the endless ads online for Temu, for fathers day they are peddling t-shirts with sayings, and one of them goes: “I Love My Wife but sometimes I want to square up.” I looked it up for a definition, still don’t get it? What does this mean? Incidentally, if I type “definite square up” in Google, the fight posture definition is the first one given. (From Oxford Dictionaries.) I was a little surprised to find out it had an older etymology than “square up” meaning to settle debts. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/27 "2024-07-04T14:20:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You’d need to convince the jury not only that the other person did square up, but that you didn’t square up first. Which would be a very difficult thing to prove, given that you punched first, and therefore were presumably ready to punch first. Googling around, a number of lawyers’ blogs give things such [as this](https://marybethharrell.com/blog/is-it-still-assault-if-someone-provokes-you/). > [@](#): > > ## When does the doctrine of self-defense apply to assault? > > Self-defense is generally a legitimate response to an assault – provided certain requirements are met. Self-defense requires showing that the person charged with assault: > > - Was in reasonable fear that force would be used against them. > - Felt that the threat to use force was imminent. **Verbal threats alone are generally not sufficient, but something like lifting an arm and getting ready to punch is an imminent threat.** > - **Did not provoke the other person into threatening to harming him/her.** > - **Didn’t have a reasonable alternative other than using force to defend himself/herself.** My bolding. Seeing the other person getting ready to punch someone could be seen as an imminent threat, but I think the problem is that if there has been mutual “yelling and swearing and threats” then it’s going to be a lot harder to prove one was acting in self defense. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635/28 "2024-07-04T15:45:37Z")
Yes, I’ve seen “squaring off” as a term related to preparing to fight. The problem that I see is that “assuming the stance” could be seen by some as a defensive posture. Maybe my lack of fight experience is the reason, but I would have trouble in many cases distinguishing a defensive stance from an offensive one. In martial arts, aren’t they both the same thing? (foot placement, slightly sideways, one arm forward of the other, both bent… etc.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-squaring-up-defined-in-the-legal-code/1003635.md?page=1)