Maine has indeed oulawed the use of the word “squaw” in place names. But as far as I know, it hasn’t outlawed “c***”. So let’s all meet on Indian C*** Mountain next year for our skiing trip.
DSYoung–
At the risk of sending this thread into GD or the Pit, what’s so offensive about Chief Wahoo? I’ll grant that he’s not an accurate depiction of a Native American, but then, he’s a cartoon… Charlie Brown isn’t an accurate depiction of a Caucasian, either. And why would using someone or something as a mascot be considered offensive? Team names are chosen because they reflect some positive quality-- you wouldn’t see a team called the Cleveland Skunks, or the Cleveland Idiots, or the Cleveland Lawyers (ok, so that last one was out of bounds). If it’s just a matter of “It’s offensive because some folks think it is”, then just about everything is offensive. Sorry, just my 0.16 bit
“There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe”
–A. Einstein
The team name for the Cleveland Indians gets mixed reviews. The name was purportedly taken in honor of an early member of the team who was a Native American. (I want to say Sockalexis, but I’m probably wrong.) Folks who consider the word indian to be demeaning are upset about it. Folks who consider the word neutral are generally not. (About five years ago, some reporter went to Maine or wherever to look up members of the long-since-deceased player’s group and asked them about the name Indian. Whoever he talked to had never heard the connection, and claimed to be delighted. I have no idea whether a poll of the whole group was taken.)
Chief Wahoo is another story, completely. Wahoo has gone through several makeovers. The very first presented a noble visage of a solemn man wearing a headband and feather. Each subsequent change has made him look goofier. (Sort of the Navajo Trucking Company logo in reverse.) A lot of people who don’t mind the name Indians would like to see Wahoo retired (or, at least, restored to his earlier appearance).
Tom~
Right on, Tom, as usual. Supposedly the Cleveland Indians, who had previously been called the Cleveland Spiders (and how’s that for a lousy team name), took on the Indians name around 1902 in honor of Louis Sockalexis, an Indian player on the team who tragically died young. Sockalexis really existed, and the name change really happened, but you wonder if the politically correct reason given for the name change is the right one.
A similar story is given for the name of the Kansas City Chiefs. Supposedly the name refers to H. Roe Bartle, long-time mayor, who was instrumental in getting the team moved to the city (they had previously been the Dallas Texans) and in building them their palatial stadium. Bartle’s nickname, as a big-time power broker, was “The Chief”, so they named the team for him.
Pardon me while I laugh. The stadium is called Arrowhead. The team’s logo consists of the letters “KC” inside an arrowhead. For a long time they had a guy costumed as an Indian as the mascot with a horse named War Paint. The fans do the Tomahawk Chop. The name “Chiefs” is clearly a reference to the Indians.
I don’t buy the KC or Cleveland excuses, but I don’t see anything wrong with naming a team the Indians or the Braves or the Chiefs. Teams are named for admirable, strong figures–look at the Eagles and the Lions and the Bears and the Tigers and the Patriots and the Warriors and the Kings and the Giants. And, for other ethnic references, check out the Vikings, the Fighting Irish, the Celtics, and the Padres. I have a problem with calling a team the Redskins, as that seems to me to be an ethnic slur, though perhaps it wasn’t considered to be so in the '30s when the original Boston Redskins were founded. Then again, a lot of respectable people called blacks “niggers” in the '30s, too.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
–Lawrence, your Barcelona correspondent, Kansas City native, and sports fan
I have never, ever heard the term squaw used derogatively. I learned in elementary school that squaw and brave* were terms for a female and male pre-Columbian Native Americans**, just like Senorita/Senora and Senor were Spanish for female and male.***
Then again, you hear very little anti-Indian sentiment anywhere in the New Jersey suburbs.
Peace.
*Of course, brave isn’t an Indian word. Unfortunately, my resourses don’t give an etymology for how this became the word for a male (or warrior) Indian.
**Of course, they simply called them Indians in elementary school back then.
***Of course, this is wrong, too (elementary school sucked). I was just showing how nuetrally the word was used.
Another thought:
If people want to ban the use of squaw because it is perceived to be derogatory, then the burden is on them to prove that it is actually used in such a derogatory manner.
After all, we can fully document all the hate and bile used in the n-word in a vast array of literature.
I’d hate for squaw to be banned based on an urban legend rather than a (supposed) fact that it is being used as a hate word.
Peace.
Redskin Woman, what is the word for “woman” in the Algonquin language?
The words for woman in the other Algonquian languages are generally very similar to a root that’s something like “/skw*/” (leading and following vowels vary.) For instance in Cree and Innu-eimun the word is iskweu (or a similar variant thereof.) In one of the more southern Algonquian languages formerly spoken in New England, the word was probably closer to /skwau/, imperfectly rendered in English as “squaw”.
Dee da dee da dee dee do do / Dee ba ditty doh / Deedle dooby doo ba dee um bee ooby / Be doodle oodle doodle dee doh http://members.xoom.com/labradorian/
Curiously, redskin woman takes issue with the word “squaw”, but calls herself a “redskin”.
Is this wrong? I don’t know. But what would happen to me if I called someone a redskin?
Irishman –
Could be akin to some black people calling themselves “niggers” and some gay people calling themselves “queers.” By appropriating the word for themselves, they rob it of its derogatory power.
“And you stole our word ‘queer’! We NEED that word! It’s OUR word for making fun of YOU!” – Homer Simpson to a gay retro shop proprietor (played by John Waters)
“The dawn of a new era is felt and not measured.” Walter Lord
It seems like a contradiction to me. If they can do it with “redskin”, why not “squaw”?