# Is standing for the national anthem political? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025 "2020-08-13T21:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/41 "2020-08-15T01:02:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As with most things in life, context matters. It is not a political statement when a national anthem is being played at international sports events. It’s simply a ceremonial custom. The deism comes in from the inclusion of deity in the anthem. This also applies to the inclusion of a deity in the Pledge of Allegiance and, of course, the words “In God We Trust” in its various mandated appearances. How do you know it’s not just “ceremonial” but is, in fact, religion? Look at the pushback and who is pushing back against altering those particular things to no longer include deity. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/42 "2020-08-15T01:11:38Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > My sense (which could be wrong) is that things like standing for the national anthem never used to be political in the sense of being partisan: Americans across the political spectrum routinely stood for the anthem out of patriotism or tradition or solidarity and never imagined they were taking sides or doing anything “political.” My sense too, when I was a child. Broke down some during the Vietnam War, as I recall it; but I do think that’s the way many people still think of it. It was supposed to signify solidarity, not separation: we were all Americans, whatever our other differences. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/43 "2020-08-15T04:26:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Nothing, or maybe everything. It’s not decided yet. I’m of two minds about that. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/44 "2020-08-15T04:38:21Z")
The anthem and the pledge both pertain to the flag. The flag is by nature a military emblem, a standard of combat, and the ~~bacchanal~~ anthem is specifically about a battle. For a “peace loving” nation, paying respect to symbols of war seems a bit contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/45 "2020-08-15T05:34:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > For a “peace loving” nation Do you have a cite for this? /tongue in cheek/ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/46 "2020-08-15T09:34:34Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The flag is by nature a military emblem, a standard of combat Cite? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/47 "2020-08-15T14:05:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The deism comes in from the inclusion of deity in the anthem. This also applies to the inclusion of a deity in the Pledge of Allegiance and, of course, the words “In God We Trust” in its various mandated appearances. How do you know it’s not just “ceremonial” but is, in fact, religion? Look at the pushback and who is pushing back against altering those particular things to no longer include deity. I’m including national anthems of all nations, not the US in particular. Canada’s national anthem does not include a deity, but people stand just the same. Same is true of other nations. The behaviour in the US is anomalous in that respect. Right vs. Left politics has politicized the national anthem in the US where as it has not in other western nations, to my understanding. Respect of the American flag and anthem has been turned into a religion by those on the right and just another point of resentment against those on the left who do not agree that jingoism and deism is a healthy expression of national unity. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/48 "2020-08-15T14:08:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I was surprised and refreshed to learn that playing the anthem at sporting events was [_not_](https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events) a McCarthy-era assertion of anti-communist political views. It was, instead, an assertion of solidarity with and support of the military/war effort during WWI. Nitpick… the above describes baseball leagues. Football leagues didn’t start playing the anthem until WW2. Players weren’t compelled to stand on the field until 2009 when the military started funnelling money to the major leagues in exchange for recruiting spectacles. I don’t know when sports like hockey or basketball got involved, but it seems like all major league sports are now US military recruiting events. [Brief history of the national anthem and its use at US sporting events](https://www.axios.com/the-history-of-singing-the-national-anthem-before-nfl-games-1513305769-97a4edd0-6748-432d-b1cc-2b377848e712.html) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/49 "2020-08-15T15:47:40Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@eschereal](#): > > > > The flag is by nature a military emblem, a standard of combat > > Cite? I have no cite, just basic reason. A nation is a group of people occupying a territory. Another nation does not just come in an take their stuff because the action would be too costly, which is the military aspect of national existence. Without some form of defense (which might rely on the beneficence of some other nation), a nation cannot exist as an a sovereign entity. The national flag is the unifying symbol, its subtext being military in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/50 "2020-08-15T21:07:27Z")
In other words: you have nothing other than how you feel about it. Be so kind as to get back to me when you have something substantive. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/51 "2020-08-15T23:02:12Z")
If it is “just a feeling”, then please explain to me why the football players who knelt during the national anthem (a song featuring the flag) were accused of the equivalent of spitting in the faces of our soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/52 "2020-08-16T03:58:15Z")
Stupid racist people making asinine and false accusations against certain protesters does not make a flag “by nature a military emblem, a standard of combat”. By the way, how many people were accusing those protestors of “spitting in the faces of our soldiers” before Trump started his BS about their protest? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/53 "2020-08-16T07:06:12Z")
The National Anthem should never have been part of a sports event. Full stop. Makes as much sense as flying the flag on Arbor Day. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/54 "2020-08-16T11:44:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Canada’s national anthem does not include a deity, but people stand just the same. Yes, it does: …O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free!.. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/55 "2020-08-16T13:01:08Z")
The US national anthem doesn’t include reference to any deity, either (at least, not the first verse, which is the only part anyone other than German spies knows). Many of our patriotic songs do (America the Beautiful, God Bless America, the Battle Hymn of the Republic), but not the officially-recognized one. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/56 "2020-08-16T13:22:47Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Stupid racist people making asinine and false accusations against certain protesters does not make a flag “by nature a military emblem, a standard of combat”. > > By the way, how many people were accusing those protestors of “spitting in the faces of our soldiers” before Trump started his BS about their protest? [Here is a piece](https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/08/29/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem-protest-49ers) from 2016 (before Kumquat was president) > [@](#): > > By assuming that Colin Kaepernick’s anthem protest was disrespectful to the military, his critics are unfairly projecting what the national anthem means to them. But the QB is perfectly legitimate in protesting what it actually means to him. that seems to suggest that there was a lot of such criticism, or at least that the smattering of it was getting a lot of coverage. Granted, it does not rise to the level of “spitting in their faces”, primarily because using that kind of language tends to weaken one’s position. I stand by my reasoning. The military is a nation’s carapace. Without the military, a nation is but a notion. The flag is traditional battlefield heraldry, from way back to early nations. You can believe what you want, but it does not change the fundamental nature of things. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/57 "2020-08-16T14:42:54Z")
I don’t know how I completely forgot that bit. Worst Canadian ever. 😞 ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/58 "2020-08-16T20:12:14Z")
As an American, I want to say that I like your anthem way better. Easier to sing and better lyrics. They are playing both anthems before every hockey game now, so I get to hear it more often than ever! Anthems should be easy to sing and US National Anthem is a bear. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/59 "2020-08-16T22:05:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I stand by my reasoning. The military is a nation’s carapace. Without the military, a nation is but a notion. The flag is traditional battlefield heraldry, from way back to early nations. You can believe what you want, but it does not change the fundamental nature of things. I like the irony here. I asked for evidence of your assertion and you’re making more assertions without evidence. A flag is a piece of cloth. It has no nature. Also ironic is you telling me that I can believe what I want. I asked you for citation, not speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025/60 "2020-08-16T22:08:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Anthems should be easy to sing and US National Anthem is a bear. yeah, the Star Spangled Banner has an unusually wide range - high highs and low lows - for a song that’s meant to be sung by 300+ million people. And way too long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-standing-for-the-national-anthem-political/918025.md?page=4)