Is standing for the national anthem political?

[Monty]

@Chronos

The US national anthem doesn’t include reference to any deity, either (at least, not the first verse, which is the only part anyone other than German spies knows).

There is, as you say, no reference to deity in the first verse; however, the entire song is the national anthem and other verses do include such a reference. Here are the lyrics in full:

1. O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
   What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming,
   Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
   O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
   And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
   Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
   O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
   O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

2. On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
   Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
   What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
   As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
   Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
   In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
   'Tis the star-spangled banner, O long may it wave
   O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

3. And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
   That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
   A home and a country, should leave us no more?
   Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
   No refuge could save the hireling and slave
   From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
   And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
   O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

4. O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
   Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation.
   Blest with vict’ry and peace, may the Heav’n rescued land
   Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
   Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
   And this be our motto: ‘In God is our trust.’
   And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
   O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Something just occurred to me: If the national anthem is so important that someone should lose their job over his response to it (in the opinion of a number of people), then why is only part of it, not the entire thing, sung?

[Velocity]

@Monty

Something just occurred to me: If the national anthem is so important that someone should lose their job over his response to it (in the opinion of a number of people), then why is only part of it, not the entire thing, sung?

Nobody wants to stand through a 7-minute long anthem.

[Monty]

@Velocity

Nobody wants to stand through a 7-minute long anthem.

True. But the entire thing, not just a part of it, is the national anthem.

[Jackmannii]

@QuickSilver

@Monty

The deism comes in from the inclusion of deity in the anthem. This also applies to the inclusion of a deity in the Pledge of Allegiance and, of course, the words “In God We Trust” in its various mandated appearances. How do you know it’s not just “ceremonial” but is, in fact, religion? Look at the pushback and who is pushing back against altering those particular things to no longer include deity.

I’m including national anthems of all nations, not the US in particular. Canada’s national anthem does not include a deity, but people stand just the same. Same is true of other nations. The behaviour in the US is anomalous in that respect. Right vs. Left politics has politicized the national anthem in the US where as it has not in other western nations, to my understanding.

Actually, other anthems have been “politicized” and are controversial - for instance the “Marseillaise” in France, attacked for alleged shameful racist and imperialist antecedents. And while unsung verses of the Star-Spangled Banner are attacked for being bloodthirsty or in-your-face, it has nothing on the “Marseillaise” in that respect. Sample lyrics:

Against us, tyranny’s
Bloody standard is raised,
Do you hear, in the countryside,
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They’re coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens,
Form your battalions,
Let’s march, let’s march!
Let an impure blood
Water our furrows!

Yeesh.

“Respect of the American flag and anthem has been turned into a religion by those on the right and just another point of resentment against those on the left who do not agree that jingoism and deism is a healthy expression of national unity.”

This is more accurately rephrased as “respect for the American flag and anthem have been turned into a test of patriotism and decency by many on the right, while to many on the left both the flag and anthem are symbols of racism, imperialism and other Really Bad Things and so must be rejected”.

In my opinion there is nothing overtly “political” about standing for national anthems in the U.S. or abroad, but the custom has been politicized by various entities on the left and right. Why it’s necessary to play national anthems at sporting events is a mystery to me, but given the wailing and lamentations their removal would cause, it hardly seems worth making a Federal case out of it.* Stand, sit, go for nachos, whatever.

*“Let’s not make a federal case out of it” was one of my favorite lines in the classic movie “Anatomy Of A Murder”, spoken by the judge ruling on a squabble between prosecution and defense during the trial.

[eschereal]

@Monty

A flag is a piece of cloth. It has no nature.

In the same way that a gun is a piece of metal.

[Procrustus]

@Velocity

Nobody wants to stand through a 7-minute long anthem.

Or kneel for that long either.

[Monty]

@eschereal

In the same way that a gun is a piece of metal.

That is not even close to an apt analogy.

[AK84]

FIFA and other international bodies tend to act swiftly if any group of fans and or players are seen to be disrespecting an opposition anthem.

Understandable. I think a couple of US Soccer players knelt during the Kaepernick saga, and were told to cut that out.

International sport can be a pretty charged place and by mandating a narrow range of acceptable actions, it keeps the peace.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

“God Save the Queen” has, in the past, had lyrics that some found objectionable: BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | National anthem lyric questioned

[Thudlow_Boink]

@Monty

But the entire thing, not just a part of it, is the national anthem.

I had to check, but Wikipedia confirms this: “Although the National Anthem officially comprises all four stanzas of the poem, only the first stanza is generally sung, and the other three are much lesser-known.”

[Kearsen1]

I agree mostly with this. It is sounding like “political” is being used interchangeably with patriotic. It only becomes political if you are picking a side to support.

[Omar_Little]

@begbert2

I’ve never watched an international sporting event.

You’ve never watched the Olympic games? At each medal ceremony the national anthems are played of each country represented on the podium, for bronze, silver and gold.

[Dewey_Finn]

Wikipedia says only the anthem of the gold medal winner is played. (And as I remember the US television broadcasts, they often cut away from the medal ceremony or talk over it.)

[Monty]

@Omar_Little

You’ve never watched the Olympic games? At each medal ceremony the national anthems are played of each country represented on the podium, for bronze, silver and gold.

The national flags of each country represented on the podium are hoisted over the winners; however, only the national anthem of the gold medal winner is played.

[Omar_Little]

Sorry, my failed memory.

[Monty]

@Monty

The national flags of each country represented on the podium are hoisted over the winners;

This is not exactly correct. For certain athletes, their national flag is not used during the olympics. Those athletes peform under the olympic flag, IIRC, because of issues related to their countries no longer or not yet having an olympic committee. I do not recall if any of the North or South Korean athletes who marched under one flag at an olympic game received medals so I do not know if that flag or their actual country’s flag was used on the podium.

[begbert2]

@eschereal

I stand by my reasoning. The military is a nation’s carapace. Without the military, a nation is but a notion.

So, based on this, countries without a state military (like Costa Rica) are utterly fictional.

Sounds reasonable.

@Omar_Little

You’ve never watched the Olympic games? At each medal ceremony the national anthems are played of each country represented on the podium, for bronze, silver and gold.

Sports bore me. Hey, everyone’s different.

And yes, I’ve seen clips here and there, but certainly not enough to tell one way or another what anthems are or aren’t played.