Is Star Wars dead?

Please don’t give me the “Ep 1 was exposition”. For what? We know most of the characters, and few liked the new ones (mostly out of poor acting or dialogue). And Never compare it Fellowship. Exposition it may have been, but the characters were deep and well done, and you were being introduced to a whole new world. In Ep 1, you got a new planet or two, but the world was the same (just had better effects).

Besides, it could have been done better. The Phantom Edit (edited version of Ep 1) made the film way better, by basically editing all of the things that a good director would have removed anyway.

And I think most people liked Ep 2 better because: A) it was better than 1 and B) It ended on such a high note (Big battle, Yoda kicking butt). But you slog through a hour of unbelievable love scenes a slow plot.

Lucas needs a “No” Man. Someone with power and the balls to tell him when something needs to go.

I’ve been telling my friends exactly that for a long time now. Now that he has total control of everything, the quality has suffered.

I’ll just weigh in with my own impressions.

Star Wars came out when I was ten years old. People thought the lines for Jaws had been long. The first afternoon, reporters went to interview people to find out what all the buzz was about, and instead of getting what people hoped the movie would be like, they found people lined up to see it for the third time that day.

It was far and away the best sci-fi movie in nearly a decade (and only that short a time frame if you liked 2001: A Space Oddysey). Essentially, nothing like it had ever been seen before. The special effects were so seamless with the rest of the film compared to anything that had come before that people felt transported into this new universe. (New film technology always does this. The first viewers of the Lumiere brothers first showings in 1896, when the train (in full, over-exposed grainy black and white, with no sound) came toward the camera, ran screaming from the theater.)

It played more or less continuously for three years. I saw it in the theaters three times, and each viewing was many months away from the previous one.

Toys appeared (as did books and “Life Day” Thanksgiviing specials, no videos yet) and flew off the shelves. Some time before the turn of the decade, kids first glimpsed something odd: you could buy an action figure of “Boba Fett, Star Wars’ villain”, according to the TV. Huh?

In late 1979, fans were shocked and elated when ads for a Star Wars sequel began to appear. Remember, standard numbered film sequels at this time were not common. Star Wars was a perfectly wonderful self-contained movie experience, and the idea that you could live through something that took you back into its world was icing on the cake.

Then the film appeared. The familiar receding giant letters bore the curious title: Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. Innumerable articles and interviews followed, explaining Lucas’ grand vision. Star Wars was to be a trilogy of trilogies, with the current films part of the middle one. “Star Wars” was retroactively named “Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope”. The third installment of the middle trilogy would follow in another three years, after which Lucas would make episodes I-III (detailing the events that lead up to Ep. IV), then episodes VII-IX, following up on what the galaxy under the victorious rebels turned out to be. Truly a fitting format for such a grand theme.

But, as thrilling as the film was, trouble was already on the horizon. Jim Henson was flexing his biggest muppet muscles around this time, and Lucas put his best puppeteer, Frank Oz, to work as the Grover-voiced Yoda, which injected an unnecessary element of “cute” into the proceedings that would metastasize in Episode VI.

We all suffered through the next three years until “Return of the Jedi” appeared, and we found our suffering magnified. Yeah, it completed the story, but did we really need the Ewoks? Sy Snoodles and his band? That weird creature with the cartoon laugh who sat on Jabba’s lap? The pandering to baser instincts and obvious toy tie-ins were insulting to many, myself included. We saw a universe that GL had made us believe was real turn into a mall. We wondered if the other two trilogies would be worth waiting for. And waiting for. And waiting for.

We watched Lucas commit the horrid missteps of Howard the Duck, Willow, and the Young Indiana Jones series while our fond memories of Star Wars, badly tarnished by “Jedi” but not destroyed, faded into the distance. Where were the other trilogies we had been promised?

Finally, Star Wars reappeared in the 1990s. We all lined up around the block again, many with young’uns in tow this time. Digitally enhanced, with mixed results (what’s with the psychedelic spreading ring of death around the space explosions, George? You DO need a “no” man), at least a lot of the more cloying parts of “Jedi” had been mitigated (although I do wish they could have done away with the entire Ewok forest battle). And great news! Lucas was FINALLY puting together Eps. I-III!

But what had taken so long? Well, he said in interviews, he was much too busy putting together new episodes of “Young Indiana Jones”, which the British apparently did not regard as quite so disastrous a shitfest as we here in America did.

Uh-oh. Where are your priorities, George? Young Indiana Jones when you could be doing Star Wars? These are the instincts that are going to bring our epic to a full circle?

Episode I appeared a couple of years later. Hoo-boy. There is no way in hell that little Brady-Bunch-Oliver-without-glasses grows up to be Darth Vader. And Jar-Jar? George, didn’t the Ewoks generate enough letter-bombs for ya? And an all-star cast? Didn’t cough “Episode IV” get by just fine with mostly relative unknowns? And what’s with everybody having prior relations to each other that blow holes in so many plot points of later films? A little restraint, maybe?

And shouldn’t a movie that supposedly starts a series stand up a little better on its own? Say what you want about exposition, but it felt more like someone had labeled the dreary, oft-skipped preface of a book “Chapter 1” in order to fool people into reading it. At least Lucas came clean and said that he had just lked the idea of a trilogy of trilogies. He didn’t really have a vision for the last one, and wasn’t going to make it. Phew.

Maybe the next outing would be better.

It was, but only by so much. It was clear at this point that Lucas makes these movies to put special effects in them (and sell toys), which is fine (it gave us Star Wars, after all), but we’ve seen so many CGI films at this point we can see the seams. It does not draw us in as well because it lacks the newness of Star Wars’ original technology, cheesy as that is by today’s standards. At least after hearing for two decades how much ass Yoda could kick, we finally saw him do it, even if it was still a little too “cute”. But Hayden Christensen didn’t seem to be able to act his way out of a paper bag (he redeemed himself, IMO, in “Shattered Glass”). This too, will be Darth Vader? Gawanwitcha.

Oh well. Just get us home George, get us home. I’ll see Episode III in the theaters because the whole thing is still a pretty cool idea for a legend. But try not to “Jedi”-fy it too badly, George, PLEASE.

Now I know what the Normans sitting around the campfire waiting for the lore-master to finally finish singing “Beowulf” must have felt like.

Gary Kurtz used to be George Lucas’s ‘No’ man, but when Lucas’s ideas for Revenge of the Jedi (as it was known then) were continually met with repeated 'No’s from Kurtz, they parted ways.

My guess is that that lesson has been learned by others in George’s little team, and nobody wants to say ‘No’ to him anymore in fear of being fired. I suspect that in fact he’d actually be happy to hear some 'No’s occasionally, but nobody is willing to risk it.

Too late now, I suppose.

I’ve given this a bit more thought after reading some of the replies…

I saw the original trilogy (on tape) when I was a kid and to this day I have no problems with anything in it. The ewoks don’t bother me nor does C3PO, Sy Snootles, or Boba Fett action dolls.

I thought it was obvious when Ep I came out that Anakin was supposed to draw in the 5-7 year old crowd. And then a few years later the love story between Anakin and Padme might be to attract the hormone-crazed early teens (the 10 year olds who saw Ep I were then 13, at that point, although I do see the potential necessity of the love story to the over-all plot)

And maybe that’s what’s ‘wrong’ with the prequels. They are geared towards a younger audience who are more forgiving/accepting. Perhaps in 10-20 years a generation who grew up waiting for the next Episode to come out will hold the prequels in the same high, unquestioning regard that we hold Ep’s 4-6.

The “Star Wars” saga is dead to me, despite the protests of several of my more fan-boyish friends. Episode 1 nearly killed it, and then first reports back from Episode 2 completely dissolved any interest I had in seeing it. I’ve seen a couple scenes from Episode 2, and I don’t really feel I missed much.

The so-called Episode 4 was a beautiful fairy tale, with princesses, daring lads, an odious and obvious bad guy, a castle to storm, and a hero with a fast horse. You could set the overall story in just about any setting and you’d still have an engaging story. “Empire Strikes Back” added a lot of depth to the story, and, IMHO, turned down the “magic” qualities of the overall story a bit. The one thing it did do very well is to set up a romantic triangle between Luke, Leia, and Han. I think ROTJ did a servicable job of completing the overall story arc, but otherwise was only remakable for the special effects. It was clear by that point that the movies were becoming more about the gee-whiz factor rather than the characters. The ewoks really turned me off of ROTJ, though. I swear the first time I saw the movie I saw zippers.

When I saw Episode 1, there was not a single character in the movie worth caring about. They were all mostly one-dimensional, and were agents of the (contrived) plot rather than people we can identify with and care about. I was moved by Han falling in love with Leia, but believing that she was out of his reach. It had a profound effect on the character throughout the movies. I did not find any similar qualities in Episode 1. “I love ya, Mom, but not so much that I’m going to feel bad about leaving you.”

Finally, I really don’t buy the claim that the reason Episode 1 was so slow and expository was that it was trying to set up the universe that would follow in the next two movies. The original “Star Wars” movie introduced us all to the universe AND told a story, and did so quite entertainingly. It spent more time by far “showing” instead of “telling.” Quite the reverse was true for “Phantom Menace.”

Well, that’s my two cents’ worth, anyway :slight_smile:

JOhn.

Now this is one area where I have to disagree. Maybe it’s their characters-I generally find Padme to be kind of dull, but Carrie could act circles around Portman. ESPECIALLY when you consider she was stoned out of her gourd through most of Empire.

Maybe Nathalie oughtta do a few lines before filming Ep. III. Hell, given her previous work, it couldn’t make things any worse.

That’s an endorsement?

It seems that one of the problems (as many others have mentioned) is that Lucas doesn’t let his actors/actresses actually… you know… act. I will admit that some of the “love” scenes between Padme and Anakin were pretty brutal. The biggest problem seems to be the dialog though.

I remember Portman from The Professional. She was what, twelve? That was an excellent movie that was mostly just her and Jean Reno in front of a camera (can’t forget Gary Oldman). She was perfectly acceptable in her small role in Cold Mountain. I honestly can’t remember a thing that Carrie Fisher has been in besides the first Star Wars trilogy. So, like I said, I’ll take Natalie over Carrie.

I might as well add that even if everything else was equal, I would much rather see Natalie decked out in the slave gear from RotJ. :wink:

scottandrsn, I applaud you, very well written.

I think Empire Strikes Back is the best of all the Episodes we’ve seen so far, on the strength of its dialogue alone. Which Lucas coincidentally didn’t write…

I also prefer Carrie over Natalie, and I definitely prefer the character of Leia over that of Padme. And Han Solo is the best character of them all, in any Episode. His type is what is sorely missing from the first trilogy.

I too am hoping that this final installment will be moderately good.

Yes, thanks scottandrsn!
Excellent synopsis.
Captured how I feel exactly.

To answer the OP: Almost. Episode III will be the last gasp. Let’s hope it’s not a lame gasp.

It will be the last Star Wars movie; because when Lucas announces that he’s going to make another Ewoks TV-movie, a distraught fan will shoot him.

My point is that Carrie could really act, even while undergoing severe personal problems.

Actually, nowadays, she’s become much more successful as a writer than as an actress.

Don’t dis Carrie Fisher. In fact, don’t dis Mark Hamill either. He may not be high profile like Harrison Ford, but he’s done a lot on Broadway, and a lot of voice work for cartoons.

Mark Hamill RULES!!! Do you hear me? He RULES!

I think the flaw in the prequels is far deeper, and fundamentally fatal. George Lucas wants the prequels to feel like Star Wars: a fun, uplifting romp for the entire family (especially the kids). But that’s entirely the wrong tone for these movies, because the story he’s trying to tell is fundamentally a tragedy! Episodes 1-3 are supposed to tell of the fall of Anakin Skywalker, a young man of immense natural talents who, instead of rising above his personal weaknesses, ultimately gives into them and becomes in the process a human monster, a man who goes on to murder millions and who in the final reckoning has wasted his life. How do you make THAT story into a fun romp for the kiddies? It’s like trying to do a Disney cartoon adaptation of Macbeth; there’s no way the result can be anything but bad.

Lucas wants to give the audience a grand, swashbuckling space opera. He doesn’t have the heart to tell a tragedy. That’s why these prequels fail.

Attack of the the Sith Lords? The Helmet that Wouldn’t Die? Red Zone Tatooine?.

I think The Simpsons had the perfect take on Episode I. Even Lisa is all jazzed to see some derring-do and lightsaber action, and the whole movie is like watching futuristic C-SPAN. Finally, an AT-AT crashes through the wall . . . then puts on reading glasses and joins the political debate.

To me the prequels are an awkward jumble of boring plot, stilted dialog made worse by horrible direction, overused CGI, lots of bad acting, and some good performances that seem to be in spite of the director, not because of him. And bad dialog - did I mention that?

I do think it would have been possible to make interesting movies about how Anakin became Vader. But it would have required talented writing and directing. Oh well.

It’s such a shame - my first memory is of watching A New Hope at the drive-in, and we used Throne Room and Finale as our wedding recessional.

To be a little more direct about it (since so many people have gone the detailed route), one thing the first three movies didn’t do was suck. The last two have sucked on a scale so massive that George Lucas could have CGI’d a galaxy in it. I like artemis’s take: this is a tragic story, and they’ve tried to make an action/adventure/comedy out of it, and aimed it at kids. That just can’t work. Guess I’ll have the same debate with myself about seeing this one as I did about the last one. I ended up seeing it with friends, and I’ll probably do the same. I have only myself to blame on that one. :wink:

That’s true, but I think despite the hokiness, the first movies didn’t pander. They were definitely not Tolstoy, but they were more mature. No farting, no “yippee,” no Jewish or Jamaican aliens… :wink: To me, Yoda’s swordfight was actually the low point in that regard, it felt like it was thrown in just because fanboys had begged for years to see Yoda fight. The acting in the original three movies wasn’t good, but nothing (acting or in terms of pacing) sucked as mightily as the love scenes in Attack of the Clones. The writing wasn’t great before, but here it was god-awful with characters just not making sense. Blech.

I’ve mentioned this before: I saw AotC opening night. Lined up three hours for it. People had been camping out since the previous day. Audience was full of costumes. These were some hard-core fans. Hell, the theater we were seeing it in is owned by George Lucas. The film had every home court advantage conceivable. Despite this, during the romance scenes between Anakin and Padme, the entire audience was laughing. It was surreal. Everyone. Like we were watching a comedy. Better: like we were watching Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Now, I’m not going to defend the acting talents of Mark Hamil (sorry, Guin), but bad as he was, he was light-years beyond what Hayden Christianson put on the screen. Hamil was bad-for-big-budget-movie. Christianson was bad-for-high-school-drama-class. Portman wasn’t much better. Fisher, at least, could over-act enough to make her character interesting. Padme was simply dull. A little scenery chewing would have helped enormously. Now, apparently, Christianson has given some good performances in other movies, and I know Portman can do better, so Lucas seems the most likely culprit here. I think that, in Star Wars, he may have hated directing actors, he may have been bad at it, but he wasn’t so big that he could get away with just ignoring that aspect of directing altogether. He had to at least try. Now, he doesn’t even do that.

I had essentially the same experience as Miller. Not George Lucas’s theatre, but it was the first screening (midnight on opening morning), packed theatre, the whole deal. The first time ‘bad laugh’ from the crowd laughed was about three lines into the opening crawl, at the name “Dooku.” And it was downhill from there.

I like the name Dooku. I never understood why anyone would consider it funny.

I should probably mention I liked those…

I’ve always got the impression that Lucas gives his actors a lot of leash. And they come out very good if they are prepared to work it out themselves - he won’t and can’t hold their hands.

I’m not sure exactly what was funny about it myself other than the fact that it just sounds dumb.