# Is stating "Women can change their behavior to lessen their chance of sexual assault" misogynistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100 "2019-07-15T01:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/61 "2019-07-15T04:04:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > “You are wrong. People, including women, can alter their behavior to avoid unwanted outcomes” …who are you claiming “is wrong”? What does this strawman have to do with anything I’ve actually said? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/62 "2019-07-15T04:14:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Here is a link about sexual assault. And it shows that 45% of sexual assaults occur outside the home. So yeah, staying home “could” reduce the number of sexual assaults that occur. > > Forgot the link: [link](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem) No, this makes no sense. 55% of assaults occur at home. 45% occur elsewhere (if you look at the chart, another 12% are at a family member’s home - so only 33% of assaults occur away from home or family). If a woman never leaves home, then she is not increasing her safety, she is decreasing it. She increases her safety by getting the fuck out of her house. Unless you’re playing a game with the word “could”, in which case I “could” do a lot of things, like win the lottery or write a best-selling novel. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/63 "2019-07-15T04:17:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This is what he said: "The claim “it is a simple fact that the woman can reduce her chances of being assaulted significantly by changing her behavior” is not a “simple fact.” Yup. Do you genuinely not understand that that was a critique of the biased way **SamuelA** was using that remark? In other words, as I said, **Banquet Bear** was pointing out that **SamuelA** ’s claim was not a mere neutral observation, but a deliberate framing of the issue to disproportionately emphasize the woman’s own alleged responsibility. If you don’t understand that, okay, never mind, it may dawn on you later. But if you do understand it, then stop trying to deliberately ignore that context in your interpretation of the statement. > [@Slash1972](#): > > How about this: Do you, **Kimstu** , think that a women [_sic_] can reduce her chances of being sexually assaulted by altering her behavior? It’s a yes or no question. 😕 Of course it’s not a “yes or no question”. It depends on the particular circumstances whether a woman can reduce her chances of being sexually assaulted by altering her behavior. Honestly, **manson1972** , when you keep insisting on considering that sentence entirely out of the context in which it was being discussed, it doesn’t make the sentence look ridiculous: it just makes you look, as I said, wilfully obtuse. (Or possibly drunk, as **Riemann** noted.) > [@Slash1972](#): > > Of course you lower your risk of head injury if 45% of them occurred outside side the home and you stayed home. 😕 If 45% of head injuries occur outside the home, then that appears to imply that 55% of injuries occur **in** the home. In other words, head injuries are **more** likely to occur in the home than outside. The home is a more dangerous environment, as far as head injuries are concerned, than the world outside the home. So someone who stays home is confining themselves to an environment with **higher** risk of head injury, so they are **increasing** their risk of head injury. Of course, we’d need more details on the specific etiology of head injuries to assess the risk levels more precisely. But you seem to be trying to argue that staying at home automatically eliminates that entire 45% of risk of head injury. That’s just flat-out wrong. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you think I would lower my chances of dying in a car accident if I never stepped foot in a car? Not if the risk of dying in a car accident in your area was higher for pedestrians than for car occupants. In that case, the more you walked instead of riding in a car, the more you’d **raise** your chances of dying in a car accident. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/64 "2019-07-15T05:58:48Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > “Lock yourself in your room” while statistically true, is largely disingenuous and so true it becomes irrelevant. I like your adjective “statistically”. Because yep, statistically true isn’t always true. Locking yourself in your room doesn’t do much if your assaulter lives in the same house. [One current example](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/khachaturyan-sisters-father-murder-russia-domestic-abuse-moscow-mafia-a8490751.html). ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/65 "2019-07-15T07:30:25Z")
Saying that if women wore burkas they’d lessen their chances of getting raped is ridiculous because it implies rape is a sexually motivated crime triggered by what a woman is wearing. It’s not. Few sexual assault victims wear “sexy” clothes at the time of their assault. You want to know what I was wearing when I was assaulted in a park in broad daylight? Sneakers. Jeans. A long-sleeved button-down blouse. A coat, fully buttoned. Do you really think a burka would have spared me? Burkas are common in Afghanistan. So is rape. Check out [clothes rape victims wore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=740K0GeZnPk). Then tell us women how wearing a burka would protect us. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/66 "2019-07-15T08:23:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > . . . but the addition of “racist and misogynistic” to my warning annoys me, since I’m not racist nor misogynistic. . . . Note: You don’t have to be personally racist or misogynistic to say something racist or misogynistic. The underlying stumbling block could be that you don’t get that. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/67 "2019-07-15T10:58:56Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Check out [clothes rape victims wore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=740K0GeZnPk). Then tell us women how wearing a burka would protect us. One of the visible pieces is a little child’s dress. 6yo at the most, and that if she was a very small 6yo. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/68 "2019-07-15T11:38:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > what? WHAT? Of course you lower your risk of head injury if 45% of them occurred outside side the home and you stayed home. > > Do you think I would lower my chances of dying in a car accident if I never stepped foot in a car? Fair enough. I heard that almost half of childhood concussions happen off the football field, so I made my kid play football all the time, figuring that would cut his risk of concussion nearly in half. Even smaller risks can be mitigated this way: since 10% of lung cancer cases aren’t caused by smoking, I took up smoking, cutting my risk by 10%. I can go on if it’d be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/69 "2019-07-15T12:11:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > what? WHAT? Of course you lower your risk of head injury if 45% of them occurred outside side the home and you stayed home. I think you have some _unstated_ assumptions here, like “your home is a literal [del]fortress[/del]padded cell” and “no-one else who could [del]rape you[/del] wack you upside the head lives with you”. Are you making those sorts of assumptions? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/70 "2019-07-15T12:52:46Z")
Your sin was recognizing the agency of anyone who is not white, male, rich, or some combination of the three. The evangelical left will settle for nothing less than atonement. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/71 "2019-07-15T13:26:00Z")
In this thread I have learned that statistics are quite confounding. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/72 "2019-07-15T13:28:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In this thread I have learned that statistics are quite confounding. It beggars belief. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/73 "2019-07-15T13:29:39Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Your sin was […] It’s not about “sin”, it’s about factual **error**. **manson1972** is either failing or refusing to recognize some fundamental points: for instance, about the basic statistics of evaluating risk, and about the importance of context in assessing whether a particular claim is nothing but a “simple fact”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/74 "2019-07-15T13:47:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Your sin was recognizing the agency of anyone who is not white, male, rich, or some combination of the three. Did you mean to have that “not” in there? Or did you miss a second “not” before “recognizing”? Because otherwise this makes no sense. But lol, “evangelical left”, how droll :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/75 "2019-07-15T14:14:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Your sin was recognizing the agency of anyone who is not white, male, rich, or some combination of the three. > > The evangelical left will settle for nothing less than atonement. Thank ghod _someone_ is courageous enough to come to the defense of the rich and powerful white men. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/76 "2019-07-15T14:24:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did you mean to have that “not” in there? Or did you miss a second “not” before “recognizing”? Because otherwise this makes no sense. I think he’s criticizing the way we left-wing loonies portray people as helpless _victims_ all the time - if we’d just acknowledge that rape victims (and presumably poor people, slaves etc.) have some agency, then maybe they could stop feeling sorry for themselves, get their wits together and take action to improve their situation. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/77 "2019-07-15T14:25:44Z")
It very much depends on the statement itself. Criminals are opportunists. Suggestions I would accept as helpful are general safety tips that lesson risk such as, “keep track of your drinks”, “go out with friends or a date”, “valet park or be sure to park in a public, well-lit place”. Suggestions I would deem as sexist would be, “don’t make yourself look so alluring”, “stay out of clubs”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/78 "2019-07-15T14:27:58Z")
Why is it the burden of women to avoid being assaulted when it is men who need to be controlled? Anywhere there are men, women are at some risk. Why not just confine men to their bedrooms instead? How ridiculous! men say. We’d lose our freedom! Irony. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/79 "2019-07-15T14:28:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did you mean to have that “not” in there? Or did you miss a second “not” before “recognizing”? Because otherwise this makes no sense. My guess is that **Will Farnaby** thinks that scolding a rape victim for her “rape-able” behavior counts as “recognizing the agency of anyone who is not white, male, rich, or some combination of the three”. See, because when your response to rape is to focus on what the rape victim could/should have done to “reduce her chances of being assaulted”, rather than on changing our cultural message to men that it’s okay for them to sexually assault women, you’re “recognizing her agency”, dont’cha know. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/80 "2019-07-15T14:31:07Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think he’s criticizing the way we left-wing loonies portray people as helpless _victims_ all the time - if we’d just acknowledge that rape victims (and presumably poor people, slaves etc.) have some agency, then maybe they could stop feeling sorry for themselves, get their wits together and take action to improve their situation. In other words, we just need to stop being so darn rapeable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100.md?page=5)