# Is stating "Women can change their behavior to lessen their chance of sexual assault" misogynistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100 "2019-07-15T01:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/161 "2019-07-16T19:33:11Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It absolutely can be if you’re being flippant about serious issues because they only apply to women and (in this case) women in very specific cultures Fair enough. Here’s [a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=878884) that is being flippant about women athletes, hijabs, and Nike. With a little Taliban thrown in as well. What’s your thoughts on that? > [@](#): > > No one has said that women are more in danger at home Here’s a direct quote from a poster (bolding mine): “55% of assaults occur at home. 45% occur elsewhere (if you look at the chart, another 12% are at a family member’s home - so only 33% of assaults occur away from home or family). **If a woman never leaves home, then she is not increasing her safety, she is decreasing it. She increases her safety by getting the fuck out of her house** ” Unless you are going to say that “increases her safety by getting the fuck out of her house” does not mean “in more danger at home”? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/162 "2019-07-16T19:43:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Fair enough. Here’s [a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=878884) that is being flippant about women athletes, hijabs, and Nike. With a little Taliban thrown in as well. What’s your thoughts on that? There’s not enough context to say. > [@](#): > > Here’s a direct quote from a poster (bolding mine): “55% of assaults occur at home. 45% occur elsewhere (if you look at the chart, another 12% are at a family member’s home - so only 33% of assaults occur away from home or family). **If a woman never leaves home, then she is not increasing her safety, she is decreasing it. She increases her safety by getting the fuck out of her house** ” > > Unless you are going to say that “increases her safety by getting the fuck out of her house” does not mean “in more danger at home”? That post was followed by a slew of others discussing statistical analysis and to what degree it was being accurately applied and the conclusion was that without a lot more information, it was impossible to say–and that a broad generalization of any kind wouldn’t apply to many, many specific cases. But, again, you appear to be scanning posts looking for places where you are or could be technically correct and beating that horse, not having a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/163 "2019-07-16T19:46:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It does have a bearing. Should it? Not in a moral society that recognizes each individual’s right to be free from assault. You and some others tie it to slut shaming. I don’t. But to pretend that choices have no impact on outcome is naive or disingenuous. What bearing? Please explain, in detail. How does a woman’s choice of clothing impact her risk of being raped? Walk me through it, because I seriously do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/164 "2019-07-16T19:55:18Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But, again, you appear to be scanning posts looking for places where you are or could be technically correct and beating that horse, not having a discussion. I’m not scanning posts looking to be correct. I’m responding to direct posts by you that happen to be incorrect. I’d like to have a discussion, it’s interesting and somewhat enjoyable. But, as has been pointed out to me, statistically, women are not safer in the home. Now you are saying women aren’t safer outside of the home, even though posters have said specifically that women are safer outside of the home. To me, it seems like you are saying, as a woman every day you wake up, “There is absolutely nothing I can do to lessen my chances of being sexually assaulted today” Is that what is happening? If so, then I’m truly sorry. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/165 "2019-07-16T20:11:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not scanning posts looking to be correct. I’m responding to direct posts by you that happen to be incorrect. > > I’d like to have a discussion, it’s interesting and somewhat enjoyable. But, as has been pointed out to me, statistically, women are not safer in the home. Now you are saying women aren’t safer outside of the home, even though posters have said specifically that women are safer outside of the home. > > To me, it seems like you are saying, as a woman every day you wake up, “There is absolutely nothing I can do to lessen my chances of being sexually assaulted today” > > Is that what is happening? If so, then I’m truly sorry. No. What is happening is that different women are in vastly different situations and there is no blanket advice that will reduce the chance of sexual assault for all of them. For some women, who live with a rapist, the best they can do is stay at school/work as much as possible in order to reduce his opportunities. Do you really doubt that there are women out there today doing exactly this? For other women, staying in the home might reduce their chances of assault. The blanket advice either way will increase some women’s chances of assault and lower others. The point of the original counterexample was not to make a point about math, but to illustrate that a lot of the blanket “common sense” advice is based on a flawed, overly simplistic view of what puts a woman at risk. Your statement perpetuated that, by ignoring the frequency of sexual assault experienced by women at home. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/166 "2019-07-16T20:16:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not scanning posts looking to be correct. I’m responding to direct posts by you that happen to be incorrect. > > I’d like to have a discussion, it’s interesting and somewhat enjoyable. But, as has been pointed out to me, statistically, women are not safer in the home. Now you are saying women aren’t safer outside of the home, even though posters have said specifically that women are safer outside of the home. > > To me, it seems like you are saying, as a woman every day you wake up, “There is absolutely nothing I can do to lessen my chances of being sexually assaulted today” > > Is that what is happening? If so, then I’m truly sorry. Yes, that is what is happening. I’m not going to get raped by my husband, but I could get raped by a stranger breaking in tonight when I’m alone. I’m not likely to get raped going to my car after work, but it isn’t impossible. I’m not likely to get raped joining a convent - but it HAS happened that priests have raped nuns. I’m not likely to get raped wearing a sweatshirt (but I personally have been sexually assaulted wearing a sweatshirt) nor am I likely to get raped wearing a short skirt and low cut shirt (but again, I have been sexually assaulted in that circumstance), nor am I likely to get raped when doing my Corporate America job (which is where I got raped). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/167 "2019-07-16T20:16:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The point of the original counterexample was not to make a point about math, but to illustrate that a lot of the blanket “common sense” advice is based on a flawed, overly simplistic view of what puts a woman at risk. Your statement perpetuated that, by ignoring the frequency of sexual assault experienced by women at home. I think the problem here is you keep framing it as “advice” when it is NOT advice. And I’ve repeatedly said it’s NOT advice, nor should it be taken as advice, nor be taken as any sort of recommendation or suggestion. But you keep mentioning “advice” as if I was telling women what to do. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/168 "2019-07-16T20:17:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What bearing? Please explain, in detail. How does a woman’s choice of clothing impact her risk of being raped? Walk me through it, because I seriously do not understand. If you don’t understand how in this world that there are certain times and areas where what you wear can increase the chance of assault, sexual or otherwise, I can’t help you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/169 "2019-07-16T20:19:13Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yes, that is what is happening. I’m not going to get raped by my husband, but I could get raped by a stranger breaking in tonight when I’m alone. I’m not likely to get raped going to my car after work, but it isn’t impossible. I’m not likely to get raped joining a convent - but it HAS happened that priests have raped nuns. I’m not likely to get raped wearing a sweatshirt (but I personally have been sexually assaulted wearing a sweatshirt) nor am I likely to get raped wearing a short skirt and low cut shirt (but again, I have been sexually assaulted in that circumstance), nor am I likely to get raped when doing my Corporate America job (which is where I got raped). Just so I’m clear, because this seems important, you feel that there is absolutely nothing a woman can do to lessen her chances of being sexually assaulted? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/170 "2019-07-16T20:22:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I think the problem here is you keep framing it as “advice” when it is NOT advice. And I’ve repeatedly said it’s NOT advice, nor should it be taken as advice, nor be taken as any sort of recommendation or suggestion. > > But you keep mentioning “advice” as if I was telling women what to do. But the “advice” others gives IS based on beliefs like “women would be safer if they stayed home more” or “women would be safer if they dressed differently”. I mean, if I say “You won’t get measles if you practice good hygiene”, you aren’t advising people to not get a vaccine, but you’re perpetuating a myth that is a key argument used by those who are. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/171 "2019-07-16T20:35:11Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Do you do the same if you go out with friends? (ETA - she always knows where you arr, you check in every hour or so, and you stay within a 10-20 minute radius of where she is) In the event that I am away from home for some reason, I am in constant communication, yes. Generally, the only reason I’m away from home is for work, which usually means 500+ miles away. I don’t do social engagements unless my wife is up for coming along. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/172 "2019-07-16T20:37:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If you don’t understand how in this world that there are certain times and areas where what you wear can increase the chance of assault, sexual or otherwise, I can’t help you. Yes you can, you’re just choosing not to. What times, what areas, and what clothing, when it comes to rape and sexual assault? I seriously don’t get it. I’ve got life experience, I’ve talked with survivors, and I’ve read about sexual assault and rape. Please, enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/173 "2019-07-16T20:42:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ??? > Can you rephrase that? I haven’t the faintest idea what you’re trying to say. Sure. I have a bad habit of not elaborating. Here’s the original post I was referring to from the “why didn’t Jews assimilate” thread: > [@SamuelA](#): > > You could advise a young woman who goes to frat parties and gets drunk to ‘stop being so rape-able’. This doesn’t make the frat boys not criminals but it is a simple fact that the woman can reduce her chances of being assaulted significantly by changing her behavior. That was followed up in the ATBM thread by **Banquet Bear:** > [@](#): > > The claim “it is a simple fact that the woman can reduce her chances of being assaulted significantly by changing her behavior” is not a “simple fact.” I was attempting to answer to your question (paraphrased, I hope accurately) why I was baffled by others not seeing **manson74’s** post as hyperbole. **Banquet Bear** was right that the “simple fact” that women can “stop being so rape-able” is not at all simple - and poorly worded as well. It leaves out so many other factors as to bring the “significant” assessment into question. I withdraw saying BB’s response, the second quoted above, was also complex. I read more into it than I should have. So, to make a long story, manson’s statement IMHO was a _reductio ad absurdum_ to back up BB. This is probably another in a long line of taking my off-the-cuff comment and elaborating it into gibberish. I really need to remember to lurk in GD. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/174 "2019-07-16T20:50:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes you can, you’re just choosing not to. What times, what areas, and what clothing, when it comes to rape and sexual assault? I seriously don’t get it. I’ve got life experience, I’ve talked with survivors, and I’ve read about sexual assault and rape. Please, enlighten me. You want a precise percentage for wearing blue flip flops in a particular city at a particular time? The 1st ed AD&D DMG doesn’t have that in any of its appendices. So, if you want to believe and promote the idea that dress has literally 0 impact that’s your prerogative but I disagree even if I can’t offer exact proof. This debate is very similar to genetics and other multiple variables debates. If one cannot provide exceedingly precise proof of the taboo to discuss variable’s contribution the default is it provides 0 contribution and to suggest otherwise is hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/175 "2019-07-16T20:54:05Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I don’t disapprove of your methods. I am taking you at your words that those are reasonable precautions. My point is this: imagine that your male friend and you were going on a trip together. He says to you “Ok, in this city we are in, it’s really not very safe for us to walk alone, and if you go out, you need to make sure someone knows where you are at all times. If I don’t hear from you once an hour or so, I am going to come get you, because I think it’s likely you’ll need help”. What sort of city does that sound like? Do you think it’d be a place you’d want to vacation? If your town became so crime-ridden that you had to give this same advice to male friends and relatives who visited, wouldn’t you move, or be screaming holy hell for the local, state, and federal governments to protect your freedom more effectively? So why do we accept such a world for women? > > It’s misogynistic if it’s rooted in an assumption that women are less capable of assessing risk (obvious advice) or that their agency matters less (limiting). Most of the bad advice is rooted in misogynistic assumptions about how rape happens (women tease men past the ability to restrain themselves with their short skirts and beguiling ways). > > What kind of bars do you have in Wyoming? Jesus. If you can’t safely go to the average bar without being physically assaulted by a drunk idiot, that’s insane. It’s only misandry if you’d only say that to dudes because you figure girls are smart enough to figure it out themselves. > > Look, it might be technically possible for risk-mitigation advice from men to women to not be misogynistic. However, in the real world it is a tool misogynists frequently use to perpetuate their views and reinforce power structures that benefit them. Anyone seeking to give advice should consider this. > > More to the fucking point, why are you more interested in getting bogged down in a conversation that can be summed up as “well, techinically, a man COULD be in the right in this situation”. I mean, you’ve read two pages of discussion about this incredibly complex question of to what degree the threat of sexual assault is present in different circumstances and how fear of that assault can affect women’s rights, and the thing you (and the OP, originally) want to talk about is “well, technically, this other dude might be right.” My position is, and has always been in this conversation, that I don’t think it is right to necessarily label the argument itself as inherently misogynistic. Can it be misogynistic? Absolutely! Intent matters in this instance. One can give nutrition advice in a way that is absolutely misogynistic, but that doesn’t mean nutrition advice is inherently misogynistic. This current climate of broad-brushing is really beginning to get under my skin. So, stated outright, I am against misogyny. I do not believe that women should dress a certain way to avoid sexual assault- anybody that claims that a woman’s clothing invited assault is an asshole of the lowest order. I don’t believe women should be cloistered. And I don’t “accept” this world being a more violent place for a woman, and you can damn well bet that I would support enthusiastically better protections for women through local, state, and federal governments. I think any juror that would hear a rape case and give any credibility to the “she was dressed provocatively” argument has no business being on a jury. I think any attorney that would use that argument should be disbarred. If I had my way, men worldwide would be more civilized than they are, instead of acting like fucking animals that can’t control themselves. But… I don’t have my way. As far as bars here- it’s fucking Wyoming. Specifically, Gillette, the town that has a [psychological syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillette_Syndrome) named after it. The bars are full of drunken Trumpist coal miners and oil workers. Not the brightest or calmest group of people, as a whole. Sure, it would be great if I just had the capability to up and move with no notice, and find a place to live with people that were better to be around… much like many inner-city, impoverished people would be better off just moving to a better place… in theory. But I don’t have the resources to just up and leave, so here I am. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/176 "2019-07-16T21:02:48Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Just out of curiosity, was your advice to not go to the bar rooted in their sex or in their experiences? Do you tell \*all \*men not to go to the damn bar? Because i this thread, we are dealing with statements / advice/ general “rules” that are offered to all women, not just ones that find themselves inexplicably getting into fights. My advice is based on the experiences of those given the advice, sex unrelated. Of course, I don’t do bars, so I think it’s good general advice, but I recognize that as personal bias. To each their own, though. I just find it objectionable that the statement raised in the OP is labeled as inherently misogynistic- as though it is a simple black and white issue, that THOSE words strung together in THAT way is misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/177 "2019-07-16T21:18:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You want a precise percentage for wearing blue flip flops in a particular city at a particular time? The 1st ed AD&D DMG doesn’t have that in any of its appendices. So, if you want to believe and promote the idea that dress has literally 0 impact that’s your prerogative but I disagree even if I can’t offer exact proof. > > This debate is very similar to genetics and other multiple variables debates. If one cannot provide exceedingly precise proof of the taboo to discuss variable’s contribution the default is it provides 0 contribution and to suggest otherwise is hate speech. No, I recognize that it’s possible that certain clothing affects this risk. I just am putting forward that this is useless information for any woman, because there’s no way for her to know that she might be happening to walk by a rapist who prefers blue dresses vice a rapist who prefers a red raincoat, etc. If you disagree, then what clothing do you believe increases the chance of rape, and what is your basis for this belief? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/178 "2019-07-16T21:22:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, I recognize that it’s possible that certain clothing affects this risk. I just am putting forward that this is useless information for any woman, because there’s no way for her to know that she might be happening to walk by a rapist who prefers blue dresses vice a rapist who prefers a red raincoat, etc. > > If you disagree, then what clothing do you believe increases the chance of rape, and what is your basis for this belief? Well, in most cases it might very well be useless information. That doesn’t mean that those who suggest that dress may play a role are being misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/179 "2019-07-16T21:48:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, I recognize that it’s possible that certain clothing affects this risk. I just am putting forward that this is useless information for any woman, because there’s no way for her to know that she might be happening to walk by a rapist who prefers blue dresses vice a rapist who prefers a red raincoat, etc. > > If you disagree, then what clothing do you believe increases the chance of rape, and what is your basis for this belief? I think things that increase the chances of rape are things that get noticed more and things that prevent awareness of surroundings. For example, several nights a week, I see women leaving the gym in the dark wearing a sports bra and yoga tights with headphones in and looking at a bright phone screen. There are several things which have increased her probability of an attack. That doesn’t mean she deserves it, encourages it, or anything, but someone with bad intentions is going to be more likely to fixate on someone like that. It’s similar to someone being foolish about displaying their wealth. Someone walking out of the bank counting out a huge stack of bills is putting themselves at higher risk of getting mugged. If someone with bad intentions happens to be in the parking lot, it’s not surprising if the bad person decides to rob the person with a stack of cash in their hand versus someone who has their money in their pocket. Certainly the criminal may chose to rob the person who has no obvious indication of having money, but it’s not as likely as the person he knows is loaded. I often feel like a disservice is done when anyone who tries to bring this up is slammed as misogynistic and implying that women should stay at home wearing burkas. Like it or not, there are bad people out there. Until that problem is solved, women need to be aware that bad people may notice them. The more noticeable they are, the greater the chance for a bad person to fixate on them. That doesn’t mean they have to dress differently or lock themselves away, but it does mean they need to make sure they stay aware, and even more so when they are more noticeable. So when leaving the gym, don’t do things like stare into your phone which make it easy for a creep to follow you. It’d be nice if we could say those sorts of things in the same way we tell people not to count a stack of cash when riding on the subway. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100/180 "2019-07-16T22:31:36Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > In the event that I am away from home for some reason, I am in constant communication, yes. Generally, the only reason I’m away from home is for work, which usually means 500+ miles away. I don’t do social engagements unless my wife is up for coming along. Is that because you feel unsafe outside of your home? > [@filmore](#): > > I think things that increase the chances of rape are things that get noticed more and things that prevent awareness of surroundings. For example, several nights a week, I see women leaving the gym in the dark wearing a sports bra and yoga tights with headphones in and looking at a bright phone screen. There are several things which have increased her probability of an attack. That doesn’t mean she deserves it, encourages it, or anything, but someone with bad intentions is going to be more likely to fixate on someone like that. > > It’s similar to someone being foolish about displaying their wealth. Someone walking out of the bank counting out a huge stack of bills is putting themselves at higher risk of getting mugged. If someone with bad intentions happens to be in the parking lot, it’s not surprising if the bad person decides to rob the person with a stack of cash in their hand versus someone who has their money in their pocket. Certainly the criminal may chose to rob the person who has no obvious indication of having money, but it’s not as likely as the person he knows is loaded. Very specifically, do you think the woman’s choice to remain in her gym clothes increases her chance of being assaulted? You have lumped “wearing a sports bra and yoga pants” in with wearing headphones and starting at her phone. Do you think that if she was in less revealing clothes, but still staring at her phone/wearing headphones, her risk would be lower? If she were in yoga pants and a sports bra, but practicing good situational awareness, would her risk still be higher than otherwise? > [@](#): > > I often feel like a disservice is done when anyone who tries to bring this up is slammed as misogynistic and implying that women should stay at home wearing burkas. Like it or not, there are bad people out there. Until that problem is solved, women need to be aware that bad people may notice them. The more noticeable they are, the greater the chance for a bad person to fixate on them. That doesn’t mean they have to dress differently or lock themselves away, but it does mean they need to make sure they stay aware, and even more so when they are more noticeable. So when leaving the gym, don’t do things like stare into your phone which make it easy for a creep to follow you. It’d be nice if we could say those sorts of things in the same way we tell people not to count a stack of cash when riding on the subway. Again, when the advice is 1) incredibly obvious 2) useless or 3) incredibly life-limiting, it comes across as exceedingly misogynistic. Especially when no one seems to want to ever have a discussion about actual cases, and instead just tell little hyperbolic anecdotes that serve as morality sketches for how dumb girls can be. I mean, what’s the disservice? Why is the key issue in these conversations always about the horrible injustice of men not being able to speak frankly and honestly with women about their ill-advised ways? I mean, do you guys actually think more sexual assaults are happening because men are not allowed to freely advise women about making better choices? This is a serious question. Do you guys think women are getting raped because they are engaging in risky behavior that they didn’t recognize as risky, but men watching them did but couldn’t say anything? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stating-women-can-change-their-behavior-to-lessen-their-chance-of-sexual-assault-misogynistic/837100.md?page=10)