# Is stigmata biologically plausible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752 "2013-09-01T20:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CloneFive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@CloneFive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CloneFive)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/21 "2013-09-01T23:41:10Z")
The actual subject of this question is not the source, but the question in itself. The question in itself inquired if stigmata (the notion that bleeding can result purely from suggestion) is biologically possible. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/22 "2013-09-01T23:45:25Z")
There is a psychological component to eczema. Mayo clinic: “The exact cause of atopic dermatitis (eczema) is unknown, but it’s likely due to a combination of dry, irritable skin with a malfunction in the body’s immune system. Stress and other emotional disorders can worsen atopic dermatitis, but they don’t cause it.” > **[Atopic dermatitis (eczema) - Symptoms and causes](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/atopic-dermatitis-eczema/symptoms-causes/syc-20353273)** > > Learn about the causes, symptoms and treatments of this itchy rash that most often begins before age 5, is persistent, and has periods of clearing and relapse. If you look at my wiki link for eczema, you can see examples of blistering. There are some cites from the 1950s and 1960s regarding eczema, stigmata and hypnosis, but some are pretty dubious. [http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=527014](http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=527014) A Freudian take on eczema: [Atopic Dermatitis: A Clinical Psychiatric Study : Psychosomatic Medicine](http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/13/1/1.abstract) [http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v29/n2/full/jid195773a.html](http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v29/n2/full/jid195773a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/23 "2013-09-02T04:31:25Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Indeed, and human fingernails are quite capable of inflicting damage to human skin - a person undergoing some sort of mental episode could probably quite easily scratch or cut themselves, then deny (or just not remember) doing it. Even if they were under constant watch this could go unnoticed. > [@Musicat](#): > > While, given a great stretch of the imagination, it might be possible for your mind to make your body bleed in a specific place, that’s doing it the hard way. It’s comparatively easy to use misdirection and fraud to simulate it. So far, that’s the only way we know for sure it is has been done. All else is speculation. Misdirection, fraud, _and really sensitive skin_. Take a dull pencil and run it along my arm and it will leave a trailing red mark behind. Apparently most people don’t react this way, though my skin certainly isn’t among the worst. My wiki link also shows cases of bleeding due to eczema, or rather the scratching associated with eczema. I’ve scratched myself bloody, which sounds terrible but really isn’t all that bad relative to late evening itch. It wouldn’t surprise me if somebody might use religious piety as a cover story for an underlying skin condition. Chronically bloody hands are socially awkward: I speak from personal experience. One [eczema pressure group](http://www.nationaleczema.org/nea-research-program) characterizes the disease as, “Life altering but not life threatening.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/24 "2013-09-02T07:00:52Z")
> [@CloneFive](#): > > I don’t have to. You have access to a fine search engine by the name of ‘‘Google’’. Conversely, I asked if it were possible for suggestion to cause external bleeding. No you don’t have to. Only if you want to be taken seriously do you have to. ---
**Author:** ![CloneFive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@CloneFive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CloneFive)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/25 "2013-09-02T10:21:13Z")
I asked if brain output could cause external bleeding on the skin. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/26 "2013-09-02T10:38:12Z")
I’m talking about the assertion you made in post #15. You obviously had a specific case in mind when you posted that, but you expect others to go and seek it out - this is not a good recipe for productive discourse, as they may search find some other thing than the thing you had in mind, and then everyone will be talking at cross purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/27 "2013-09-02T11:19:24Z")
> [@CloneFive](#): > > I asked if brain output could cause external bleeding on the skin. Yes; if the brain output compels your hand to aggravate your skin in a particular area. See also Delusional Parasitosis. ---
**Author:** ![CloneFive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@CloneFive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CloneFive)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/28 "2013-09-02T13:56:24Z")
Yes, caused by stress hormones. However I fail to acknowledge any stress hormones that can tear open the skin to the extent that bleeding is visible, unless of course the brain somehow can manipulate matter. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752/29 "2013-09-02T19:46:12Z")
Ok, we know that some sort of mechanism can cause itching which can lead to bleeding. We also know that skin diseases exist. Can skin diseases lead to skin rupture in the absence of scratching? Yes: see the routine examples of weeping in wikipedia’s article on eczema. Can skin diseases lead to actual bleeding in the absence of scratching? [This website](http://symptom.healthline.com/symptomsearch?addterm=Bleeding%2520Skin%2520Rash) lists a number of diseases with the symptom of “Bleeding skin rash”. They include Meningococcemia, Leukemia and Ebola. Can somebody with normal skin be hypnotized into acquiring a bleeding skin rash without scratching? I am not a doctor, but I seriously doubt it. Methinks that stigmata doesn’t indicate the power of the mind so much as the power of messed up skin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-stigmata-biologically-plausible/667752.md?page=1)