# Is streaming t.v shows generally considered illegal/copyright infringement/stealing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 18, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783 "2018-03-18T16:17:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/1 "2018-03-18T16:17:51Z")
I was wondering, is streaming considered stealing or copyright infringement to the law? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/2 "2018-03-18T16:28:34Z")
Yes, unauthorized duplication, distribution, or performance of a work protected by copyright law is infringement. There’s no question about it. Services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc., are not infringing because they have authorization, that is, a licensing contract with the copyright owners. ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/3 "2018-03-18T16:38:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, unauthorized duplication, distribution, or performance of a work protected by copyright law is infringement. There’s no question about it. > > Services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc., are not infringing because they have authorization, that is, a licensing contract with the copyright owners. I see. The uploader is doing copyright infringement, but does the same apply to the person watching it? I read this here: > **[How Canadian law views online streaming video: Geist](https://www.thestar.com/business/how-canadian-law-views-online-streaming-video-geist/article_b018fb18-dcc1-5f8b-9ef3-1215b3a3d723.html)** > > Viewers accessing unauthorized streaming websites are unlikely to be infringing copyright because merely watching a non-downloaded stream does not run afoul of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/4 "2018-03-18T19:39:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, unauthorized duplication, distribution, or performance of a work protected by copyright law is infringement. There’s no question about it. > > Services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc., are not infringing because they have authorization, that is, a licensing contract with the copyright owners. If I copy the entirety of a book, and then sell the copy, everybody would agree that I broke the law. But the analogy based on the OP deals with the reader. Is the **reader** of that copy guilty of infringement? And incidentally–blanket statements regarding this issue are often not helpful. For example, your statement would mean that libraries are automatically guilty of copyright infringement. If you pay attention to the copyright statements found in a great many books, you will notice that they do not authorize such lending activity. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/5 "2018-03-18T20:39:31Z")
Note that some TV shows are not covered by copyright. E.g., a handful of episodes of _The Andy Griffith Show_ (assuming the still-in-copyright music is taken out). In addition some shows under copyright might be freely distributable for one reason or another. E.g., Fred Rogers stated in the Betamax case that he didn’t care if anyone copied his shows. The more kids who saw them the better. Some people try to put streaming into a separate category from downloading. They are just fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/6 "2018-03-18T20:47:46Z")
Viewing a streaming work is not copyright infringement because the viewer is not making a copy (yes, there is buffering, but that’s never an issue). It’s an infringement if the viewer has downloaded the file onto their computer because a copy is being made. Copyright is _the right to make copies_. It only comes into play if you make a copy. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/7 "2018-03-19T00:11:49Z")
That article explicitly says that (Canadian) law “exempts temporary reproductions of copyrighted works if completed for technical reasons”, downloaded or not downloaded, that the rights holders do not know who the viewers are anyway (and therefore have no dealings with them), and, moreover, while it is possible that a given streaming site distributed a tv show without permission (in which case the site could potentially face legal problems), the overwhelming majority of streaming video in North America is in fact authorized. In other words, enjoy your show. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/8 "2018-03-19T00:39:17Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > But the analogy based on the OP deals with the reader. Is the **reader** of that copy guilty of infringement? Reading a book does not implicate any of the relevant exclusive rights of a copyright owner. Streaming is not the same as reading. > [@](#): > > And incidentally–blanket statements regarding this issue are often not helpful. For example, your statement would mean that libraries are automatically guilty of copyright infringement. What libraries do is explicitly exempted by the copyright law. Streaming is not. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Viewing a streaming work is not copyright infringement because the viewer is not making a copy (yes, there is buffering, but that’s never an issue). “Blanket statements regarding this issue are often not helpful.” A lot of streaming—for example what Spotify does—is treated as distribution of a copy of a work. The internet user might not be committing infringement by _viewing_ the performance of a work, but might be committing infringement by causing his or her computer to make a copy of (because, yes, streaming does this) and perform the work. > [@](#): > > Copyright is _the right to make copies_. It only comes into play if you make a copy. No. The right to make copies is only _one_ of the rights implicated in copyright law: > [@Section 106 of the Copyright Act of 1976](#): > > **§106 · Exclusive rights in copyrighted works** > > Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has > the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: > > (1) to **reproduce** the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; > (2) to **prepare derivative works** based upon the copyrighted work; > (3) to **distribute** copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to > the public by **sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending** ; > (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to **perform** the copyrighted work publicly; > (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to **display** the copyrighted work publicly; and > (6) in the case of sound recordings, to **perform** the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/9 "2018-03-19T00:51:51Z")
You cannot stream without making a copy of the work. It’s not possible. Streaming just means that you start watching before the copying is complete, and possibly (though not necessarily) that the copy will be deleted shortly afterwards. That said, for almost every TV show, there’s going to be at least one and often multiple legal ways to stream it, usually involving payment for some subscription service which has made arrangements with the show’s owners. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/10 "2018-03-19T03:07:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You cannot stream without making a copy of the work. It’s not possible. Streaming just means that you start watching before the copying is complete, and possibly (though not necessarily) that the copy will be deleted shortly afterwards. How is this different than watching a show over the air in the old days. Yes, I realize that generally the “copy” of an image was only fleetingly there and immediately replaced by the next, but this seems to be a difference of degree not substance to watching a video stream. Does it become copying when I have 2 seconds, 30 seconds, a half hour in my buffer. And yes, of course, it’s easier to capture that than using a VCR was, but legally what’s the difference if I don’t retain the copy? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/11 "2018-03-19T03:35:07Z")
No difference (you are not supposed to keep the copy forever, though). The EU directive (for instance) anticipates this: > [@](#): > > Temporary acts of reproduction referred to in Article 2, which are transient or incidental [and] an integral and essential part of a technological process and whose sole purpose is to enable: > > (a) a transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary, or > > (b) a lawful use > > of a work or other subject-matter to be made, and which have no independent economic significance, shall be exempted from the reproduction right provided for in Article 2. There was a guy who was making money selling streaming players pre-loaded with a list of pirate sites who lost his court case, but, again, that really has nothing to do with you as the viewer. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/12 "2018-03-19T08:59:44Z")
At least half, if not a great majority, of YouTube music videos would, I believe, be illegal content according the same application of copyright law. Let’s say you go to your YouTube playlist, and a notice pops up on one that it has been removed. Guess what? Last time you watched it,you were a criminal, because it was still illegal, but not yet removed under protest from the copyright owners. Is the burden on a YouTube viewer to confirm that content is not copyright protected, before watching it? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/13 "2018-03-19T14:11:41Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > How is this different than watching a show over the air in the old days. Because the broadcaster was legally transmitting the signal intending for you to watch them! I can’t believe people are making these lame excuses putting streaming into a different magic box from other copyright infringements. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/14 "2018-03-19T14:47:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You cannot stream without making a copy of the work. It’s not possible. Streaming just means that you start watching before the copying is complete, and possibly (though not necessarily) that the copy will be deleted shortly afterwards. Maybe if you only have a few minutes worth saved at a time, each individual two minute portion technically falls under Fair Use 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/15 "2018-03-19T14:48:32Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Because the broadcaster was legally transmitting the signal intending for you to watch them! > > I can’t believe people are making these lame excuses putting streaming into a different magic box from other copyright infringements. Are you suggesting that watching a show on Youtube or Netflix constitutes copyright infringement? If so, you are in the minority. The guy who got in trouble was turning a profit _selling_ custom pirate boxes. Nobody is going after the _users_ of streaming appliances because (1) most streaming is completely legitimate and authorized, and (2) the police are not breaking down every citizen’s door to check whether they may have used a streaming service and done something questionable (the source may not have been legit, or the user kept a bootleg copy on his hard drive). ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/16 "2018-03-19T14:52:26Z")
Is Streaming the same as downloading or not? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/17 "2018-03-19T14:56:24Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > If you pay attention to the copyright statements found in a great many books, you will notice that they do not authorize such lending activity. They also don’t authorize my putting the book on my kid’s high chair to boost him at the dinner table but that does not mean it’s illegal. When you buy a physical item, including a book, DVD, or software, you own that physical copy and may legally loan it, give it away, resell it, shred it, or anything else besides make a copy of it. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/18 "2018-03-19T15:10:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You cannot stream without making a copy of the work. It’s not possible. Streaming just means that you start watching before the copying is complete, and possibly (though not necessarily) that the copy will be deleted shortly afterwards. There are two ways to look at this, although I don’t how the law looks at it (IANAL). One is the strictly technical way that you have described. It is not possible to view or listen to anything whatsoever on your computer without there being a copy of it on your computer in some form. However, the law generally lags behind technology. YouTube user terms let you view a streaming video as many times as you want, but forbid you from capturing the stream as a copy you can store and replay whenever you want. They have gone after various online services that offer to do that, which I used to use but have discontinued the service, at least in the U.S. RealPlayer used to have a YouTube video ripper but I think it was discontinued. So the companies who control the content definitely see a difference between “making a copy by doing whatever has to happen technically to enable streaming” vs. “making a copy that you have constructive receipt of.” (to borrow a financial term) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/19 "2018-03-19T15:55:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > YouTube user terms let you view a streaming video as many times as you want, but forbid you from capturing the stream as a copy you can store and replay whenever you want Violating a website’s terms of service is not against the law, though that is probably a sidetrack to the OP’s question. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783/20 "2018-03-19T16:01:51Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Violating a website’s terms of service is not against the law, though that is probably a sidetrack to the OP’s question. ETA: [a recent judgement](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/ninth-circuit-doubles-down-violating-websites-terms-service-not-crime) that using automatic downloading tools in violation of a website’s rules is not a computer crime. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-streaming-t-v-shows-generally-considered-illegal-copyright-infringement-stealing/810783.md?page=2)