# Is sunscreen the new margarine? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804 "2019-01-15T15:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/1 "2019-01-15T15:51:39Z")
This: [https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science](https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science) was linked on another thread. Comments? Should I take it seriously. I would like someone who knows to chime in. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/2 "2019-01-15T16:42:50Z")
Before getting too carried away with the appeal of throwing out your sunscreen and embracing Sol, it might be well to consider that: 1. Apart from the (relatively low) mortality associated with common skin cancers associated with high levels of sun exposure (basal cell and squamous cell), the morbidity can be great. It’s not fun to have to visit dermatologists and plastic surgeons repeatedly for biopsies and excisions which may produce substantial scarring and disfigurement.\* 2. People who are out in the sun a lot tend to display bad-looking, spotty and/or saggy skin. This causes a prematurely aged look (I saw a lot of this in Texas). 3. The health tradeoffs mentioned in the article are still largely speculative apart from assuring adequate vitamin D levels (which can be achieved through supplementation). > [@](#): > > When I spoke with Weller, I made the mistake of characterizing this notion as counterintuitive. “It’s entirely intuitive,” he responded. “Homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years. Until the industrial revolution, we lived outside. How did we get through the Neolithic Era without sunscreen? Actually, perfectly well. “Humanity survived” is a lousy argument for a lifestyle habit. We also survived bubonic plague and cholera quite well without pest control and proper sanitation, for what that’s worth. The margarine analogy falls into the category of “Science/Medicine wuz wrong before!”, which is another defective argument often used by those who promote woo. Science and medicine do change recommendations on the basis of sound evidence, which is a feature and not a bug. There _is_ a fair amount of support for a balanced approach, i.e. encouraging short, repeated amounts of sun exposure without risking burns, as described [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290997/). \*on the other hand, getting lots of non-fatal skin cancers is a boon for pathologists like me. Keep those 88305 reimbursements coming, sun worshippers! ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/3 "2019-01-15T16:46:07Z")
There’s some validity to the article. SPF protection of 75 is not better than SPF 25. We all need vitamin D and some exposure to the sun is very healthy, but getting repeated sunburns is not healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/4 "2019-01-15T17:00:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …There _is_ a fair amount of support for a balanced approach, i.e. encouraging short, repeated amounts of sun exposure without risking burns, as described [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290997/)… Hi Jack. Generally agree with your points, and this was exactly the ref that I also found (I have a personal interest as I’m (a) Vit D insufficient and (b) spent the last few years immunosuppressed, and thus coated with factor 50 when outdoors.) Re the link in the quote above, the\*\* Similar articles in PubMed\*\* panel (select **See All** ) takes you to 95 publications, largely addressing Vit D. I’m going to take a look at a few, because I thought that the big weakness in the article in the OP was a lack of proper cites. But interesting, all the same. j ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/5 "2019-01-15T18:47:20Z")
Certainly the want of citations is a red flag. But the claim is that vitamin D supplementation is ineffective and there are other effects from exposure to sun. But this is why I raised the question. Are these claims (vitamin D supplementation ineffective, other effects of exposure) valid. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/6 "2019-01-15T19:26:04Z")
I believe that article is at odds with the advice from most medical professionals who study that stuff. And… the American Heart Association says margarine is healthier to consume than butter. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/7 "2019-01-15T19:37:37Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Are these claims (vitamin D supplementation ineffective, other effects of exposure) valid. Other potential benefits of sunlight includes exposure to red and near-infrared light causing photobiomodulation. Photobiomodulation produces a number of significant physiological changes in the tissue: > **[The Therapeutic Effects of Red and Near-Infrared Light (2017)](http://valtsus.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-therapeutic-effects-of-red-and-near.html)** > > 1. Introduction I have previously written about the vast research showing that irradiation by red light or near-infrared appears to have ... ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/8 "2019-01-15T20:38:34Z")
I haven’t had time to look at this carefully, but I’ll post it since the link is easy to miss in the Outside article. [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/joim.12496](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/joim.12496) Swedish study, 30,000 women over 20 years. On glancing through - there’s a large effect; but only BMI is used to attempting to control for confounding correlation between sunlight exposure and general healthy/fit lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/9 "2019-01-15T21:57:58Z")
" Until the industrial revolution, we lived outside. How did we get through the Neolithic Era without sunscreen? Actually, perfectly well. " Well, no, we died at 40. But all those cave dwellers had already had children, so evolution didn’t care, and susceptibility to cancer was not recorded in the fossil record. Bet they didn’t have a lot of cases of Alzheimer’s in the Neolithic Era, either. Or diabetes. Or cirrhosis. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/10 "2019-01-16T01:31:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*on the other hand, getting lots of non-fatal skin cancers is a boon for pathologists like me. Keep those 88305 reimbursements coming, sun worshippers! I love you, man. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/11 "2019-01-16T01:38:59Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > " Until the industrial revolution, we lived outside. How did we get through the Neolithic Era without sunscreen? Actually, perfectly well. " > > Well, no, we died at 40. But all those cave dwellers had already had children, so evolution didn’t care, and susceptibility to cancer was not recorded in the fossil record. > > Bet they didn’t have a lot of cases of Alzheimer’s in the Neolithic Era, either. Or diabetes. Or cirrhosis. And we didn’t, by and large, die at 40, either. Many of us either died at \<1, or lived well into “old age”, leaving an “average life expectancy” of ~40. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/12 "2019-01-16T02:19:57Z")
Using sunscreen on the occasions when you are likely to be exposed more than usual is not going to cause a vitamin d problem, and given it’s real world effectiveness i find it highly unlikely that using it a lot if you’re someone who works out in the sun will be a problem either. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/13 "2019-01-16T02:30:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Humanity survived” is a lousy argument for a lifestyle habit. We also survived bubonic plague and cholera quite well without pest control and proper sanitation, for what that’s worth. To be fair to Weller, I think he is a credible scientist, and he’s not approaching the issue like the paleo fantasists who take it as axiomatic that anything we didn’t have 50,000 years ago must be bad for us. We can debate the strength of the evidence, but he’s certainly taking an evidence-based position; and he was addressing the question of whether his conclusions are _counterintuitive_, to which I think his response was valid. ---
**Author:** ![Garak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Garak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/14 "2019-01-16T04:46:59Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I believe that article is at odds with the advice from most medical professionals who study that stuff. > > And… the American Heart Association says margarine is healthier to consume than butter. I read somewhere that margarine is only one molecule away from plastic ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/15 "2019-01-16T04:59:33Z")
> [@Garak](#): > > I read somewhere that margarine is only one molecule away from plastic Which is [bullpucky,](https://www.noted.co.nz/health/health/oils-and-fats-expert-busts-four-anti-margarine-myths/) > [@](#): > > ‘Margarine is one molecule away from plastic.’ > > A nonsensical statement, according to Eyres. “It’s like saying methanol is similar to ethanol, when we know ethanol is safely consumed in alcoholic drinks but methanol ingestion causes blindness and death,” says Eyres. “It’s nonsense.” Many organic compounds, such as fats, are formed from carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. And many have similar constructions. Nonetheless, a one-molecule difference is substantial in scientific terms. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/16 "2019-01-16T06:57:17Z")
Well, to answer the OP, I’m definitely not spreading sunscreen on my toast anymore, that’s for certain. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/17 "2019-01-16T12:53:10Z")
Shouldn’t you be concerned about what sunscreen is doing to the world’s coral reefs? One drop can contaminate an Olympic sized pool. Hawaii has recently banned it, I expect other places to follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-sunscreen-the-new-margarine/827804/18 "2019-01-17T03:03:09Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I believe that article is at odds with the advice from most medical professionals who study that stuff. > > And… the American Heart Association says margarine is healthier to consume than butter. Margarine has been reformulated: the point is that following the advice to use margarine instead of butter lead to high consumption of trans-fats.