# Is Superman a skilled combatant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589 "2006-03-23T14:50:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/1 "2006-03-23T14:50:25Z")
I was just reading over the wikipedia article on [Superman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman). While it addresses how his powers have fluctuated due to writing changes over the years, there is nothing about his skill level WRT the manly art of fisticuffs. Perhaps, then, one of you who is a bigger fan of the character than I ever was could address the question. Super strength and invulnerability aside, how tough is Superman? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/2 "2006-03-23T15:04:28Z")
Well, he fought [Muhammad Ali](http://www.supermantv.net/articles/ali.htm). Looks like Ali won, but the fight may have been fixed. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/3 "2006-03-23T15:12:48Z")
More than you might think, but push come to shove, it’s just plain hard to build up serious skill when you’re fasting than a speeding bullet and more powerful than a locomotive. I mean, how is Superman going to learn how to do a proper drop kick? He want to kicksomething, he does, and the target gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/4 "2006-03-23T15:12:54Z")
Not an exact cite, but watching Superman in the Justice Leage cartoons, I would say so. In addition to his strength/durability, he can also fly, but being able to fly is kind of pointless if you don’t have the agility/reaction time to make the most out of it. That isn’t to say he’ll hesitate/miss a punch to allow for dramatic effect. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/5 "2006-03-23T15:16:33Z")
He has little need to use it because Mongul and Doomsday only come around so often, but he has trained some with the Psychobat, and at one point knew some odd Kryptonian Ju-Jitsu/karate thing (which, at the time, Lois also knew–take that Superman Revenge Squad). Like any skill, it lessens with disuse. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/6 "2006-03-23T15:22:55Z")
Frank Miller’s Batman certainly didn’t think so. In the Batman/Spawn crossover he has Bats say (telerpath?) to Spawn “No discipline. You’re worse than Clark?” “Who?” “Never mind” Does Superman _need_ skill? He’s super-fast. He can change his tactics and grip before his opponent can, in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/7 "2006-03-23T15:30:23Z")
He’s not a great hand to hand fighter but he seems to compensate with his other powers. I’m in the “he doesn’t need them camp”. This was, however, a big complaint of Thor fans who say that Thor should have schooled Superman in their fight due to his vastly superior combat skills. As someone who thinks the fight was a poor one I still can’t agree with this point of view. Thor fights a certain way and only pulls out the nifty moves when fighting multiple-opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/8 "2006-03-23T16:28:58Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > More than you might think, but push come to shove, it’s just plain hard to build up serious skill when you’re fasting than a speeding bullet and more powerful than a locomotive. I mean, how is Superman going to learn how to do a proper drop kick? He want to kicksomething, he does, and the target gets hurt. So, “IRL”, fights between Superman-class beings would be very much like watching two unskilled normals clumsily flailing and grabbing at each other? Faster, and with lots of buildings and such getting detroyed, but still? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/9 "2006-03-23T16:35:57Z")
So Superman’s fighting abilities are a metaphor for a guy with a large penis who doesn’t ever need to improve his lovemaking? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/10 "2006-03-23T16:45:24Z")
There was a nifty little story where a villain has shuffled the bodies of all the Justice League. The villain himself, Kobra (who has no powers once you get past his vast resources), is in Batman’s body, and Superman is in Kobra’s body. Kobra attacks, thinking a powerless Superman would be a pushover. He wasn’t. “Don’t like that, do you? Neither did Doomsday.” “Nothing you could do to me would be half as painful as Kryptonite.” Superman gets pushed often enough that he gets to test his powers. He’s not as skilled as the dedicated martial artists, but he’s an effective fighter. OTOH, to ask Lex Luthor when he encountered a powerless Clark Kent: “I always knew you had a glass jaw, Kent.” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/11 "2006-03-23T18:43:45Z")
I agree; Superman is a skilled fighter, but not a great one like Batman or Lady Shiva. Despite his immense powers, Supes does get in serious slugfests from time to time with a few folks who are near his level. Also, some years ago, he trained with Mongul, who is nearly in his class, to prepare for the battles during the Our World At War crossover. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Aestivalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Aestivalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aestivalis)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/12 "2006-03-24T06:55:32Z")
To be fair, Mongul’s training was also to get Superman to use his powers more effectively. Thus the ability to fly in space without needing breathing apparatus, using heat vision at full power, not holding back his strength when fighting, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/13 "2006-03-24T11:27:06Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > So Superman’s fighting abilities are a metaphor for a guy with a large penis who doesn’t ever need to improve his lovemaking? > 😃 Consider the obligatory “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex” reference made… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-a-skilled-combatant/349589/14 "2006-03-24T12:02:02Z")
He’s trained, experienced, but not skilled. Which means he could probably still defeat your garden-variety black-belt who’s only got sparring time, because experience counts.