# Is Superman and illegal alien? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 29, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649 "2006-06-29T16:56:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/1 "2006-06-29T16:56:37Z")
Anything in the canons of DC to suggest that Superman ever naturalized? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/2 "2006-06-29T16:59:43Z")
Well, in an “alternate future” sort of story, Superman was running for President, and the Supreme Court ruled that since his “Birthing Matrix” rocket opened on American soil, he was born in America (and certainly a citizen). I don’t know if that was ever confirmed in an in-continuity story, but presumably the court ruling would have been the same if it had ever been an issue. Whether the new “Birthright” origin for Superman still allows for this, I’m not certain. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/3 "2006-06-29T17:02:58Z")
My understanding is that the birthing matrix has been retconned out of Superman’s origin. If that’s true (I think it is, but I’m not sure), Superman would indeed be an illegal alien. Although if the issue ever came to light, Congress could and most likely would pass a private bill naturalizing him. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/4 "2006-06-29T17:29:56Z")
Wasn’t he adopted by the Kents? Wouldn’t that make him legal? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/5 "2006-06-29T17:40:14Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > Wasn’t he adopted by the Kents? Wouldn’t that make him legal? Unless they’ve changed the backstory since I was reading the comics (mumble) ago, the Kents passed him off as their natural child. So, he has fraudulent papers as Clark. Now, as Kal-El, he arrived without papers, so he’s illegal (a skyback? 😉 ) However, Supe has almost always been shown as a friend of everyone governmental, surely he’s been naturalized at some time. Would that cover Clark? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/6 "2006-06-29T17:50:54Z")
What I’d like to know is, how can he legally enter any country without a passport? Seems to me DC addressed this issue at some point, where the UN granted him a special right to travel into any nation or place on Earth… ---
**Author:** ![internetslacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/da6949/32.png) [@internetslacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/internetslacker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/7 "2006-06-29T18:07:15Z")
Yeah, _you_ try asking Superman to leave the country. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/8 "2006-06-29T18:09:49Z")
> [@internetslacker](#): > > Yeah, _you_ try asking Superman to leave the country. But if he’s Moral, he should get his ass naturalized. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/9 "2006-06-29T18:41:56Z")
Ah, well oficially superman doesn’t live in the US. His official address, as far as the public knows, is : Fortress Of Solitude, Secret Location, Antarctica (or Andes, or North Pole, it changes)He is assumed to be a visitor, and given the same status as any oither guest going to the US for business or tourism. Besides, would _you_ want to be the one asking for his passport? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/10 "2006-06-29T18:41:56Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > But if he’s Moral, he should get his ass naturalized. And the rest of him, too. …What? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/11 "2006-06-29T18:44:01Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > Besides, would _you_ want to be the one asking for his passport? Why?! He’s not evil. He shouldn’t yell at me or hurt me for doing a job! He should hie himself (ass and all, Bosda) down to the local Post Office and get the forms and submit them. Alternately he could just fly round and round the earth and change it so he was always naturalized, and then fly around giving everyone a passionate kiss so they forget he wasn’t originally. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/12 "2006-06-29T18:47:17Z")
Unless he’s been naturalised, Superman is stateless. I suppose he could apply for refugee status, given that he can’t return to the planet that he came from. (And all of this overlooks the big question of whether Superman is a human being, and hence a person to whom all these citizenship questions apply.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/13 "2006-06-29T19:05:09Z")
Ah, but one can argue that he’s is an American citizen, under [TITLE 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, § 1401](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html): > [@](#): > > **§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth** > > The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: > … > (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States; I’m not sure what that phrase “until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years” means, but it presumably means more than just common gossip about someone’s extraterrestrial origins, which, let’s face it, is a rather improbable hypothesis. I would have thought that to deprive someone of citizenship under this section, it would mean “shown in a court of law”. If the INS (or whatever it was called at the relevant time) didn’t take any steps to prove Supes’ extra-terrestrial birth prior to him turning 21, then’s he’s a natural born US citizen, and can run for President. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/14 "2006-06-29T19:08:05Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Unless he’s been naturalised, Superman is stateless. I suppose he could apply for refugee status, given that he can’t return to the planet that he came from. (And all of this overlooks the big question of whether Superman is a human being, and hence a person to whom all these citizenship questions apply.) But this is a question that would need to be answered. What about if an alien, a real alien, was born in the States? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/15 "2006-06-29T19:58:17Z")
Back in the 1950s (or maybe early 1960s) Superman was made a citizen of the planet by the United Nations, IIRC. Of course, that was many retcons ago. I don’t even know whether Superman is a known alien, these days. And what about the rest of the superheroes? Since nobody knows their secret identities, none of them can have passports either. I wouldn’t be surprised if there had been a story in which the Justice Society (and maybe also the Justice League) were given permission to do battle against evil anywhere. It would be very funny if some supervillain were to be imprisoned on a lack of passport violation. But then, whose court would try them? It’s really, really best not to think about these things. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/16 "2006-06-29T20:10:23Z")
Even if we reject the “birthing matrix” idea as being retconned, silly, or both, I believe there’s a principle in law that an abandoned infant found in a country’s territory is legally presumed to have been born in that country. And being born on Krypton doesn’t even necessarily preclude the possibility that he was born in the US, if one takes the principle of _ad coelum et ad inferos_ literally. Most likely, it would be impossible to determine whether Krypton were in American space at the moment of Kal-El’s birth, so the presumption based on where the infant was found would still be valid. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/17 "2006-06-29T20:14:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And being born on Krypton doesn’t even necessarily preclude the possibility that he was born in the US, if one takes the principle of _ad coelum et ad inferos_ literally. Um…could you explain this for the benefit of us stoopid ones? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/18 "2006-06-29T20:20:05Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Um…could you explain this for the benefit of us stoopid ones? I [Googled](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuius_est_solum_eius_est_usque_ad_coelum_et_ad_inferos) it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/19 "2006-06-29T20:22:37Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > I [Googled](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuius_est_solum_eius_est_usque_ad_coelum_et_ad_inferos) it. Thanks! From your link: > [@](#): > > Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos (in English, for whomsoever owns the soil, it is theirs up to the sky and down to the depths) is a Roman legal principle of property law no longer observed in many instances today. Chronos, any more info? Is it observed? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649/20 "2006-06-29T20:53:22Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > Wasn’t he adopted by the Kents? Wouldn’t that make him legal? I don’t think adoption automatically confers citizenship in all cases. But anyway, that would apply to Clark Kent only. If Superman wanted to claim that, he would have to reveal his identity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-superman-and-illegal-alien/362649.md?page=2)