That’s not what I’m reading in the OP, nor is that a factor in an “English-only” workplace.
I avoid talking in front of someone in a language they don’t understand because I consider that basic politeness, but this is something I choose to do - it’s not something they have the right to demand of me. Often when I’ve been in multilingual groups the language changes had to do with the word in the other language being shorter or more precise; other times we were talking in one language, someone who didn’t speak it came by and we changed once we noticed they were there.
I’m offended by people adressing me in a language that they have been told repeatedly I do not speak or understand, specially when those same people have refused to assist me in learning it. By two people speaking among themselves in a language I don’t understand and who will translate for me any parts I should know about, no. Parts they do not translate, I assume are not relevant for me.
But that is not what is being mentioned here. I usually see (and do) the opposite. I’m speaking another language, and someone who does not know it comes by. We want to include that person, so we switch to English.
And I doubt that, if two people are away from English speakers, they were speaking English and “just suddenly” switched to non-English in presence of whitey. Most likely, they were already not talking in English, and continued to do so when English speaker entered because the conversation did not involve him/her.
Most of the Spanish speakers where I work earn at least as much as I do. All our “business” (except for phone conversations with Spanish speakers) and most office conversation is in English. I’m not upset by a bit of brainless office chitchat in Spanish–I know enough to realize it is not about me, but it goes by so fast that I’m not distracted by every last detail of the wedding A sang at last weekend or what adorable things B’s kids said this morning.
And if I must hear a superior yelling at her teenager on the phone, I’m glad when it’s in Farsi.
Really, I wish more brainless office chitchat was in another language…
If it’s lunchtime or a small group is on a break then speak whatever is comfortable. They’re not on the clock, for goodness sake, and it’s rude to eavesdrop on other conversations in that context.
If it’s business-related, or in a group conducting business, speak the common language so everyone knows what’s happening.
I once had a Philipino manager (who I detested, with the feeling mutual, but that’s another story) who adhered to that religiously. When another Philipina worker would come up and ask her a business related question in Tagalog she’d sternly correct the younger woman and say “In this company business is conducted in English”. Lady was a real stickler for rules. But it did make work run smoother.
I also once worked for a woman who was Turkish (her I liked) and for reasons never explained her family spoke French at home. Startled the hell out of one of her sons when he made some disparaging comment regarding me in French and I responded to it. His mother reminded him that some Americans do understand other languages. She’d always speak English to me (I understood her instructions better in it) but her kids always spoke French to me once they knew I understood it, even if my spoken French was never fantastic. But she’d scold the kids if they switched to Turkish, because she said it was rude to speak a language unintelligible to someone in front of that someone, particularly for the purpose of excluding them. Which is really the most important point here - it’s rude to exclude people in that manner.
It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, and it’s my belief that it only bothers certain types of individuals who like to be “in on” all communications around them. I’m more of a “don’t give a crap unless you’re speaking to me directly” type.
Two possibly interesting instances I’ve experienced on this issue:
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A friend and co-worker from Cuba worked with me in retail many years ago. One day, a hispanic man (potential customer) approached him and began speaking to him in Spanish, apparently talking about the merchandise he was interested in buying. This went on for at least a full minute with no response from my friend. When the customer finally paused, obviously expecting a response from my friend, he adopted a bewildered look and said, “Sorry, I don’t speak Spanish.” The look on the customer’s face went from shock to amusement to (finally) anger. Only a few seconds later, my friend laughed and told the customer (in Spanish) he was just joking, but the damage was done. The customer cursed at him in both English and Spanish and stormed out of the store. We both found it hilarious.
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Much later, in an office setting, I had a Puerto Rican co-worker who would speak perfect English when talking to anyone in the office, but when he was on his desk phone having personal conversations, he would nearly always speak Spanish. This absolutely infuriated another co-worker in the cubicle next to him. While he never confronted the Spanish-speaker, he would vehemently complain to anyone who would listen, including the manager. Each time it happened, you could literally watch his face turn red with anger, and he would immediately stomp off to find someone to “vent” to about it. I left the company long ago, but always wondered if/how that was ever resolved.
The thing is, in my experience, I have seen a lot of people- and Spanish is always the language I see - use it to talk smack about people. I understand enough Spanish to get the gist. I’m not very fluent in speaking it, but I can get by. So men talk about the women in the office, and the women talk nasty shit about their coworkers.
My mom was a nurse for thirty years and the Spanish nurses in the office ALWAYS talked in Spanish, badmouthing the other nurses, the doctors, and the patients. It’s uncomfortable and awkward.
My family uses Hindi to backtalk and badmouth about other people. Sometimes when they are right in the fucking room.
So I guess it’s all about your experiences. I’ve always been an outsider in one way or another - immigrant, and moved LOTS of times in my childhood - so I am not fond of being an outsider in yet another way. Other people obviously don’t care.
ETA: And obviously ALL uses of a foreign language don’t bother me. Talking on the phone, or even a few sentences? No problem. Every thing you say is only to the person who speaks the same language, even when others can help? Problem.
It would make me a little paranoid. My friend’s family goes like this: English when they’re okay with everyone hearing what they’re saying, Spanish when they only want the family to understand what they’re saying, then French when the siblings don’t want their parents to know what they’re saying.
I know they’re probably not talking about me, but when someone takes my food order in English and then immediately starts talking to their coworkers in Tagalog my first reaction is OMG THEY’RE MAKING FUN OF MY HAIR/CLOTHES.
Haven’t run into this at work yet.
Exactly! Ignorance is bliss in some situations.
For chitchat in my office they talk smack in English about the coworkers not present. I guess speaking in a foreign language just makes it easier to talk smack about those present, but again, the times I’ve seen, the English speakers will talk smack behind their backs anyways. When I talk Spanish I’m more likely to be asking “Hey, what are your plans this weekend?” or “You’re moving, what do you need that I can sell to you?”. I’d rather have background noise in another language, just so I can be ignorant to the fact that I’m excluded from some activities (whether I would participate in them or not).
I know this isn’t the case with Spanish or Tagalog, but one of the things driving the Welsh and Irish languages to extinction was the notion that it was “rude” to speak a language that everyone present didn’t understand. So people would switch to English to be polite, especially in public, and the indigenous languages were fading. One of the big breaks in the 1960s was to combat this notion, though it’s still common.
In general, if you’re talking about someone in front of them without including them, that’s the source of the rudeness, not the technique you use to disguise it. And if some rude person is talking about me, what do I care what they’re saying? People talk about people. Maybe my hair is funny today. So what.
It almost happened to Catalan, via similar mechanisms. The pendulum has swung in the opposite direction now, but it’s going to be a while before Spanish starts being in danger of disappearing from Catalonia.
Assuming it’s legal for her to do so, have your mom wear a digital voice recorder. And then have someone interpret the dialog for her.
Do I also need to cc the entire office when I’m sending a social email (say, a lunch invite)? I mean, I’d hate for anyone to feel excluded!
Try spending an evening only speaking with your spouse in Pig Latin. Can you do it? Sure. But it’s going to feel really unnatural, and pretty absurd. That’s exactly what it feels like when two native speakers of Language A try to have an ordinary conversation in Language B. It’s not impossible, but it’s really strange and stilted and not something you’d chose to do on your own.
Think about it. If you were in China on business and you spoke reasonable, but imperfect, Mandarin, would you really chat in the hallways with a fellow American in Chinese? In four years of living abroad, I never ran into an American who didn’t default to English around other Americans. So why would expect something different of others here? It’d be a pretty entitled thing for me to expect.
In any case, foreign languages are not trade secrets. If you really cared, it’s not that hard to fix the problem yourself.
This is the sort of thing that doesn’t bother me at all. Maybe because I grew up in this situation. My parents always spoke Hungarian with my extended family, but I never picked up the language myself. So there were many, many times in my childhood that people around me were talking a language I didn’t understand. And a lot of those times people were definitely talking about me – they’d be pointing at me. That never happens at work.
I’d guess this is more of an issue with Americans than many other places. In most of the other non-English speaking countries I’ve visited, it’s common for people to know more than one language–which usually includes English.
This thread is about people in America who speak another language AMONG THEMSELVES. I don’t know why this would be a problem when you are not a part of the conversation.
However, I notice that Americans in other countries also expect those people to speak English to them. I consider this rude on the part of the Americans. I’ve always took the trouble to learn the basics of the language of any country I visit. It is always produced very pleasant experiences with the native people when I made the attempt to speak their language.
I think this is one of the traits of typical Americans that not only causes us to have a reputation for rudeness in other countries, it is also to our detriment as a nation. We are a nation that is proudly ignorant of the world outside our borders. This cultural ignorance is at the root of some of our political problems.
One of the best ways to begin to understand another culture is to learn their language. Plus, it’s fun. I took years of French up through high school, and hated every minute of it. My attitude was, why learn this? Everyone speaks English. Then, many years later I traveled to Quebec. I had taken so many years of French that some of it stuck, and I started using it–and it was a blast! Being to speak and understand another language was so awesome, it awakened by interest in learning others.
So, while it’s easy to just say “You’re in America. Speak English”, making the effort to learn another language will benefit you in ways beyond just being sure they’re not gossiping about you.
I don’t like to be “in on” everything around me, but I do like to be able to filter the stuff that affects or interests me from the background noise. Foreign languages completely gum up the filter–if I have no idea what anyone is saying, how can my subconscious know if I can safely ignore it or not? So it kicks everything up to “potentially important: listen and make a decision” and that is incredibly fucking distracting.
Also, it’s rude to exclude people. It was rude when you were on the playground and a group of kids was turning their backs on someone and whispering among themselves. It was rude when you went to someone else’s work party with them and all anyone would talk about was work stuff you didn’t know about or understand. And it’s rude when you’re sitting in a group of people speaking a language you know one or two people don’t understand at all. Even if it’s a personal conversation.
It’s also rude to bully people into speaking a language they’re not as comfortable in, especially if they are not talking to you. That includes bullying through peer pressure.
I strongly feel that people should be able to speak in their own native language whenever possible. If they’re talking to their friend in a language I don’t understand, it’s none of my business anyway. I work in an area heavily populated with Latinos in an organization that serves Latinos, so Spanish is an everyday thing. However, I do speak Spanish. I know that’s not the only reason I feel the way I do. I’ve had other friends speak in languages I don’t understand and it doesn’t bother me a bit. Frankly I love it that they feel comfortable enough around me to do so.
I used to to take the “let them speak how they want!” stance. But then I started seeing the situation differently when I got to graduate school…
Most of the graduate students at my school were Chinese. They couldn’t speak English very well. It wasn’t unusual to find labs totally staffed with Chinese research assistants. I’d step into the cellular biology department had hear loud Chinese everywhere.
It wouldn’t have been a big deal but for the fact that the professors, whose research they were involved in, could not communicate with them. Their poor English skills could have been forgiven as long as they improved. But without practice, this never happened. Not only was the research suffering, so was the education of the undergraduates they were teaching. And the graduate student body wasn’t very unified.
I also can’t imagine how weird it would have been to be the only non-Chinese student in a lab. Sometimes the only thing that saves a bad day is being able to joke around with your labmates. Maybe I would have been hip enough to learn some conversational Chinese, but I probably would have eventually switched labs. Having a lot of students switch out of your lab is not a good thing for a professor.
So the graduate program instituted an informal “English only” policy. Even in social situations, everyone was strongly encouraged to speak English. It just started right before I graduated; don’t know if it worked. But I was all for it.
I once had the “pleasure” of waiting behind an American woman at a hotel in Quebec City. She wanted something from the clerk, who called his boss, and they spoke to each other in French which infuriated the woman (though I think she was already angry). Whatever issue she was having she came off as a bitch.