# Is "taxation without representation" a thing in the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319 "2024-09-15T21:47:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/81 "2024-09-16T22:28:06Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > They could also restrict a capital district to the area between the WH and congress and… admit the remainder as a state without a constitutional amendment. Cite: Or if the Dems are ever in a position to grant statehood to DC, even better, they could divide DC into pieces (NE/NW/SE/SW, or otherwise) and admit each piece as a state! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/82 "2024-09-16T22:31:26Z")
Didn’t know that there was a Mexican restaurant in Del Ray with a guitar player! We were regulars at Taqueria Poblano, pre-parenthood, and we still occasionally get over there. (We live in southern Maryland, but before retirement, we worked in Suitland, and it was an easy drive over for dinner after work.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/83 "2024-09-16T22:35:23Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > But it has no chance of happening with 40+ GOP senators If the Dems hold the White House and Senate, we may find out otherwise - the filibuster may be on life support once Manchinema aren’t there for the few other pro-filibuster Dem\* Senators to hide behind. \*Including independents caucusing with the Dems, like Angus King. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/84 "2024-09-16T23:03:00Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Or if the Dems are ever in a position to grant statehood to DC, even better, they could divide DC into pieces (NE/NW/SE/SW, or otherwise) and admit each piece as a state! The longstanding proud cultural heritages of NE/NW/SE/SW DC have been ignored for far too long. When Wyoming was admitted as a state, it had a population of 62,555. [Three of the four DC quadrants exceed that](https://planning.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/op/publication/attachments/DCOP_SDC_Quadrant%2520pop%2520DC%25202000.pdf). In the spirit of compromise, I would agree to merge SW DC (population 23,180) with the NW quadrant (pop 303,381). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/85 "2024-09-17T00:47:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Also please note- No taxation without Representation is not part of American law. It is not mentioned in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/86 "2024-09-17T00:50:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution. What is your point? Is- “No taxation without Representation” mentioned in either? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/87 "2024-09-17T00:52:17Z")
Just a pet peeve. You said _or_ making a distinction between the two. Again, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, as are all the other amendments. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/88 "2024-09-17T05:25:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You said _or_ making a distinction between the two. Again, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, as are all the other amendments. So, now you had to waste TWO posts on this. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/89 "2024-09-17T06:46:31Z")
If DC were admitted as a state, there’d be the need to repeal the 23rd Amendment, the one that gives the Federal District three electoral votes. I’m sure Republicans would be in favor of repealing that amendment, even if they aren’t in favor of DC statehood. But what if DC is admitted with a rump Federal District composed of the National Mall plus a number of adjacent buildings including the White House and Capitol. But Republicans, in a fit of pique, decide to oppose repealing 23A. So the FD would be reduced to having virtually no residents but it gets three Electoral Votes. Yes, the President plus whatever family live in the WH would be in it. And possibly the VP plus family, depending on how they draw the borders. But the Pres and VP usually vote in their respective home states, so there’d be no residents to vote for the FD Electoral College members. And for that matter, no one to administer such an election. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/90 "2024-09-17T13:15:27Z")
The 23rd Amendment provides that: “the District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint [electors] in such manner as Congress may direct.” It doesn’t have to be by popular vote of the residents of DC. DC’s electors could be awarded by lot, or awarded to whichever candidate wins the most electoral votes among the states. While it would be cleaner to repeal the 23rd if DC were made a state with a rump federal district, it’s pretty easily worked around. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/91 "2024-09-17T13:57:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Just a pet peeve. You said _or_ making a distinction between the two. Again, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, as are all the other amendments. And one can use “the Constitution” to refer to the original document itself, or the original document as amended. DrDeth made clear with context that they were referring to the former. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/92 "2024-09-17T14:14:43Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > The 23rd Amendment provides that: “the District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint [electors] in such manner as Congress may direct.” It doesn’t have to be by popular vote of the residents of DC. I’m sure the current law says that it is by popular vote. Thinking about it, if they don’t change that law, there won’t be a problem. As I said above, there’s no one to administer such an election, so there won’t be one. Thus no Electors will be elected and there won’t be any EC votes from the FD. Which is exactly what is desired. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/93 "2024-09-17T15:16:55Z")
Yeah, but Congress would have to pass a bill anyway to redefine the boundaries of the District and other clean up like repealing the Home Rule Act so might as well take care of the 23A issues there. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/94 "2024-09-17T16:58:37Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I’m sure the current law says that it is by popular vote. DC statehood would necessarily involve changing the current law, and the most recent bill to admit DC as a state (which, to be clear, is a total dead letter in the near and probably medium-term future) includes [a repeal](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/51/text#toc-HE526DF6205834A6FA6FA784778FE93CA) of the current law on presidential elections in DC. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319/95 "2024-09-19T16:22:43Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I thing the capital district once included part of VA and they did give that back. Specifically, Arlington County, VA. The other half of the square that once comprised the entire capital district, on the south side of the Potomac. > **[Arlington County, Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_County,_Virginia)** > > Arlington County, or simply Arlington, is a county in the U.S. state of Virginia. The county is located in Northern Virginia on the southwestern bank of the Potomac River directly across from Washington, D.C., the national capital. > Arlington County is coextensive with the U.S. Census Bureau's census-designated place of Arlington. Arlington County is the eighth-most populous county in the Washington metropolitan area with a population of 238,643 as of the 2020 census. If Arlington County were i... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-taxation-without-representation-a-thing-in-the-united-states/1007319.md?page=4)