# Is teaching your daughter racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776 "2002-12-24T22:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![buffybeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@buffybeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buffybeast)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/101 "2002-12-29T02:16:43Z")
I have no problem with a white father asking his daughter not to date black men. In fact, I just read an article in Essence magazine that encourages black families to teach their sons not to date white women. In many cases, people wish to preserve their cultural identity and heritage. This is the same as a Jewish family encouraging their children to only marry other Jews. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/102 "2002-12-29T03:41:56Z")
**veryb…** do you realize that by this last post you are admitting that your OP statement that “if B is racist, then A must also be racist” is _itself_ fallacious, because there is no way to conclude it from the information contained in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/103 "2002-12-29T04:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buffybeast \* > \*\*I have no problem with a white father asking his daughter not to date black men. In fact, I just read an article in Essence magazine that encourages black families to teach their sons not to date white women. In many cases, people wish to preserve their cultural identity and heritage. This is the same as a Jewish family encouraging their children to only marry other Jews. \*\* And the tiny fact that skin color does not equal culture or heritage? Do you have any problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/104 "2002-12-29T05:00:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buffybeast \* > **In fact, I just read an article in Essence magazine that encourages black families to teach their sons not to date white women.** I’m going to have to ask for a cite on that one. Issue, article title, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/105 "2002-12-29T20:28:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Poppycock, **JR**. Classism, elitism. Hmmm…One man’s classism is another man’s racism. How do you know the motive behind _this_ classism, or elitism? How do you know the father is not motivated by racism from the outset for insisting her daughter to be in a high profession? (_there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there, you know_) To be objective, there’s no way to know, as there’s no way to know if the father is a racist for wishing her daughter not to marry a black. > > You Dopers’ calling of that father racist in case (B) is simply overstepping the line. \*\* If you want to redefine words, go right ahead, but keep in mind that the rest of those who speak english will have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. If you want to use a word that could encompass a lot of different forms of discrimination, use prejudice, **not racism.** ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/106 "2002-12-29T20:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buffybeast \* > \*\*I have no problem with a white father asking his daughter not to date black men. In fact, I just read an article in Essence magazine that encourages black families to teach their sons not to date white women. In many cases, people wish to preserve their cultural identity and heritage. This is the same as a Jewish family encouraging their children to only marry other Jews. \*\* First off, I think you are either: Taking Essence out of context or making it up. How would you preserve cultural identity or heritage? I think you mean preserving skin color because cultural identity and heritage can be preserved by a conscious choice. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/107 "2002-12-29T20:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Poppycock, **JR**. Classism, elitism. Hmmm…One man’s classism is another man’s racism. How do you know the motive behind _this_ classism, or elitism? How do you know the father is not motivated by racism from the outset for insisting her daughter to be in a high profession? (_there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there, you know_) To be objective, there’s no way to know, as there’s no way to know if the father is a racist for wishing her daughter not to marry a black. > > You Dopers’ calling of that father racist in case (B) is simply overstepping the line. \*\* How do you know “there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there”? Do you have a study to confirm what you are saying, or are you **once again** believing stereotypes :rolleyes: ? Your father could very well be racist for wanting you to be a doctor or a lawyer **if** he wants you to be one of those professions **in order to** keep you away from African Americans. He would have to be very ignorant to believe this, but yes, it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/108 "2002-12-29T21:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*How would you preserve cultural identity or heritage? I think you mean preserving skin color because cultural identity and heritage can be preserved by a conscious choice. \*\* You mean…err…a black Santa? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/109 "2002-12-30T04:45:17Z")
Whaaaaa…? What on earth does your question relate to, **vbd**? Did you understand the statement you quoted? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/110 "2002-12-30T05:58:01Z")
There aren’t too many black lawyers/doctors? If the father in that case thinks _that_, then yes, he’s a racist idiot. Does he really think that there are so few blacks who can have a successful career that he can easily keep his daughter away from the _horrors_ of black progeny by having her become a lawyer or a doctor? ---
**Author:** ![fizgig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f04885/32.png) [@fizgig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fizgig)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/111 "2002-12-30T08:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by verybdog_ > You see, in America, racism is not exactly about race. Racism in America is about hatreds, is about daily insults, is about frequent acts and verbal expressions of contempt and disrespect, is about discriminations, about slavery. If racism were all about race, then ask today’s upstarts Tiger Woods, Colin Powell, Denzel Washingtion, Serena and Venus Williams sisters…to see if they got any? > > Racists think that only low-status jobs should go to low-status stupid races (white included) and that \*\*members of the economically and culturally dominant race alone (blacks included) \*\*should have access to privileges, political power, economic resources, high-status jobs, and unrestricted civil rights. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by verybdog_ > Poppycock, JR. Classism, elitism. Hmmm…One man’s classism is another man’s racism. How do you know the motive behind this classism, or elitism? \*\*How do you know the father is not motivated by racism from the outset for insisting her daughter to be in a high profession? (there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there, you know) \*\* To be objective, there’s no way to know, as there’s no way to know if the father is a racist for wishing her daughter not to marry a black. _Bolding mine._ It looks to me like you’ve just gone and contradicted yourself, and your wanton redefinition of words, **vbd**. How in the _logical_ world can racism be defined as preference towards power-wielding upperclass of all races, yet preference of the color of one’s grandchildren’s skin NOT be defined as racism? This brings up many questions. If this hypothetical father is of the upper class, how would he feel about his daughter marrying a blonde-haired, blue-eyed member of the proletariat, assuming this man was nice, treated the daughter well, etc? If this was unacceptable to him _though his children would “look like him”_ he is classist, or in your bizarre definition, racist. Going to the breeding stock question, how would your hypothetical father feel if this blonde-haired, blue-eyed member of the proletariat pulled himself up by the bootstraps, became a self-made millionaire, and then desired to marry the daughter? Is his “race” still “bad” because he comes from a poor, albeit white background? Is this what you mean by race? If that is the case, what if the daughter wishes to marry a well educated, well spoken black man who is a member of an affluent family with a family tracing back to African royalty? We’ll assume this man is everything the father could ask for in a SIL, but if the father objects on the grounds that his skin is dark, _he is a racist in the purest definition of the word._ ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/112 "2002-12-30T12:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*You mean…err…a black Santa? \*\* What in God’s name are you talking about? How does a “black Santa” fit into our discussion? You do know that other cultures have their own version of Santa Claus, right? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/113 "2002-12-30T12:30:55Z")
This doesn’t have much to do with the discussion, so sorry for the brief hijack, but didn’t G. Gordon Liddy pick his wife because of her genetics? I remember hearing that somewhere. He didn’t do it for racist reasons (IIRC), he picked his wife because she was good at math, tall, and strong (IIRC). In that case, I don’t think he was being racist, or classists. I do think he was being bizarre though. But then again, I could be totally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/114 "2002-12-30T12:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*You mean…err…a black Santa? \*\* Also, is this the only response you can give to the well though out questions that the other posters, and I have given to you? To bring up some shit about a “black Santa”? How about before you go off on a tangent on the paranoid meaning of a “white” Christmas, you answer some of our other questions first? ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/115 "2002-12-30T15:45:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*How do you know “there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there”? Do you have a study to confirm what you are saying, or are you **once again** believing stereotypes :rolleyes: ? \*\* From the fact that black is a minority in this country. The percentage of black doctors and lawyers is a tiny one (less than 5%?) comparing to that of the whites. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/116 "2002-12-30T16:14:06Z")
**fiz** , that hypothetical father of so called “high class” does not mind his daughter marrying a blonde-haired, blue-eyed member of the proletariat or self-made millionaires for that matter - because he is not classist. All we known here is that the father wishes his grandkids be look like him - that’s all. If the daughter disobeyed his wish one day, the father wouldn’t stop her forcefully - because he is not racist. Except that he would be disappointed - for his grandkid won’t look like him any more. **Meatros, buffy** made a valid point, I’d rather s/he answers your question. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/117 "2002-12-30T18:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\* **Meatros, buffy** made a valid point, I’d rather s/he answers your question. \*\* First, I don’t think Buffy made a “valid” point. I also asked s/he some questions and got no response. I don’t think I will either, but hopefully I will be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/118 "2002-12-30T18:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*From the fact that black is a minority in this country. The percentage of black doctors and lawyers is a tiny one (less than 5%?) comparing to that of the whites. \*\* African-American’s are a minority but that doesn’t necessarily mean that, on average, the amount of black lawyers would be dispropotionate to other ethnicities. African Americans in the law profession should be relative to the proportion of African Americans in the country. The same should be true for “white” americans. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/119 "2002-12-30T21:20:58Z")
Just trying to expand on **buffy** ’s point - that the father is black and he advises his black daughter not to date a white man. Is he a racist? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/120 "2002-12-30T21:28:47Z")
“the father wishes his grandkids be look like him” I’m a blue eyes white gal. I married a white guy. Our children (all 3) look NOTHING like me. None of them have blue eyes. They look even less like my father (their maternal grandpa, as in the hypothetical). Genetics are funny. No matter who she marries, there is a good chance they will look nothing like their grandpa. If Grandpa’s obsession is to have blue eyed grandkids, I think his daughter should married whoever she wants and adopt blue eyed kids. Or even better she could marry a black man and get blue-colored contacts inserted into the kids’ eyes at birth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=7)