# Is teaching your daughter racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776 "2002-12-24T22:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/121 "2002-12-30T21:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Just trying to expand on **buffy** ’s point - that the father is black and he advises his black daughter not to date a white man. > > Is he a racist? \*\* Yes, he is also racist. Just because your black is not defense for a racist attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/122 "2002-12-31T00:35:35Z")
**vbd:** _All we known here is that the father wishes his grandkids be look like him - that’s all._ And as we have been telling you till we’re blue in the fingertips, his grandkids **may or may not** look like him **regardless of what race his son-in-law is**. If he’s, say, a short pale-skinned blue-eyed redhead and his son-in-law is black, his grandkids **will** be less likely to resemble him in such traits as hair color, skin color, and eye color than if his son-in-law is also a short pale-skinned blue-eyed redhead. But they might still be exactly like Grandpa in their height, build, shape of hands and ears, voice, laugh, musical ability, sports aptitude, or any of a hundred other things. Or they might not. If skin color is the only point of resemblance that Grandpa really cares about in his grandkids, then **YES, HE’S BEING RACIST.** If you feel that difference in skin color makes someone more fundamentally “different-looking” from you than difference in other major physical traits, that **is** a sign of racism. Even if it’s mostly unconscious and relatively benign, and even if you consciously believe that darker-skinned people are not inferior to you, overemphasizing difference in skin color reflects a racist perspective. If, on the other hand, Grandpa-to-be is just trying to get grandkids that look as much like him as possible, and tells his daughter to avoid not just black guys but **all** guys of **any** race who don’t happen to be short pale-skinned blue-eyed redheads, then no, he’s not being racist. Sorta creepy and sorta pathetic, but not racist. (And if, on the third hand, he is just trying to warn his daughter of the hassles that interracial couples still have to face in our society, and making sure that she knows what she’d be up against while still assuring her that any good man she loves will be welcomed by her family, then there’s nothing wrong with his behavior at all. That’s not the attitude you’re talking about, though.) By the way, since the question came up about representation of blacks in the legal profession, it may be of interest to know that in 1990, the state of Michigan had [1178 black lawyers](http://www.umich.edu/~urel/admissions/legal/expert/sugru10.html), and there are currently [33,950 members of the Michigan bar](http://www.nichibenren.or.jp/en/directory/michigan.htm) in all. I make that somewhere between 3% and 4% of Michigan lawyers who are black. I don’t know how well those figures generalize to the rest of the country. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/123 "2002-12-31T19:23:47Z")
Let’s push the time back to 150 years ago. A black father asks his black daughter not to marry his white slave master, is the father racist? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/124 "2002-12-31T20:17:23Z")
Yes. ANY judgement based on race is racist. How many times do we have to say it? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/125 "2002-12-31T20:18:38Z")
When do mods say “enough, already” and close threads that are getting absolutely nowhere? ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/126 "2002-12-31T20:24:28Z")
Technically, a black father telling his balck daughter not to marry the white slave master is not racist. The advice was not based on skin color of the slave master but as the individual. if the black father asked his black daughter not to marry any white person, then he would be racist. and please, verybdog, use the word prejudiced. racist dont make no sense when you use it. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/127 "2002-12-31T20:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Let’s push the time back to 150 years ago. A black father asks his black daughter not to marry his white slave master, is the father racist? \*\* It probably is. If the black father told her not to marry a white _because_ something bad would happen (getting arrested) then that isn’t necessarily racism. Racism for the most part has nothing to do with a time period. Racism has to do with prejudice against a race. That is pretty much **all** it has to do with. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/128 "2002-12-31T21:15:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Poppycock, **JR**. Classism, elitism. Hmmm…One man’s classism is another man’s racism. How do you know the motive behind _this_ classism, or elitism? How do you know the father is not motivated by racism from the outset for insisting her daughter to be in a high profession? (_there aren’t too many black lawyers or black doctors out there, you know_) \*\* That’s odd. I’m sitting in my office with one right now…who I attended a black law school with…across the hall from the black federal judge we both work for. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/129 "2002-12-31T22:03:49Z")
Is the NFL’s requirement of owners to interview at least one black candidate for a head coaching position racist? ---
**Author:** ![Rogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rogg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/130 "2002-12-31T23:03:35Z")
I wish everyone had included, in their signatures, how many children, and how many grandchildren, they have. ---
**Author:** ![Rogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rogg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/131 "2002-12-31T23:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buffybeast \* > \*\*I have no problem with a white father asking his daughter not to date black men. In fact, I just read an article in Essence magazine that encourages black families to teach their sons not to date white women. In many cases, people wish to preserve their cultural identity and heritage. This is the same as a Jewish family encouraging their children to only marry other Jews. \*\* I think it’s also equivalent to dog breeders wanting to keep the pedigree of their Collies pure, as well as their Pit Bulls. That they want to maintain the purity of breeding does not mean they dislike either breed in any way. Nor does it really mean they have anything against mixed breed dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/132 "2002-12-31T23:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rogg \* > \*\*I think it’s also equivalent to dog breeders wanting to keep the pedigree of their Collies pure, as well as their Pit Bulls. That they want to maintain the purity of breeding does not mean they dislike either breed in any way. > > Nor does it really mean they have anything against mixed breed dogs. \*\* Are you honestly equating dog breeding with human beings? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/133 "2002-12-31T23:38:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Is the NFL’s requirement of owners to interview at least one black candidate for a head coaching position racist? \*\* Are you going to sit here and think of questions in order for someone to agree with you? A pursuit of knowledge is one thing, but vainly trying to justify your position is another. I may be mis-stating your goal here, and if so, please clarify for me. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/134 "2003-01-01T01:08:52Z")
Let’s see if I can make this perfectly clear. If you have a disagreement with me, please answer directly with your interpretation why this is wrong. Point blank, no rationalizations or equizvocations: [ul][li]If you do not want grandchildren outside of your race, you are racist. [_]If your objection to your child marrying out of your race has anything to do with something other than the cultural obsticles raised by such a union, you are a racist. [_]If you out and out forbid said union, you are a racist. If you mention “breeding stock” in any way other than in sarcasm, you are a racist.[/ul][/li] There are no laws against being a racist. You can be a racist to your heart’s content. Just stop trying to mitigate or deny it. You are a goddamn racist. Admit it and embrace it. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/135 "2003-01-01T16:30:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*Are you going to sit here and think of questions in order for someone to agree with you? A pursuit of knowledge is one thing, but vainly trying to justify your position is another. > > I may be mis-stating your goal here, and if so, please clarify for me. \*\* Looks like you don’t have an answer for that question. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/136 "2003-01-01T16:36:37Z")
**biggirl** , your statements made me laugh. I don’t have mood and time to answer your questions for now. Happy New Year. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/137 "2003-01-01T17:12:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Looks like you don’t have an answer for that question. \*\* Good lord. IMHO, **if**"Is the NFL’s requirement of owners to interview at least one black candidate for a head coaching position racist? " is true, then I would say that this law would be intended to prevent racism and prejudice. Can you provide some support for this actually being true? How about this, you list all the scenarios you want, and I’ll categorically go down the list stating my opinion. At the end of the day, your father and his attitudes will still be, in my opinion, racist. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/138 "2003-01-01T17:14:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\ ***biggirl** , your statements made me laugh. > > I don’t have mood and time to answer your questions for now. > > Happy New Year. \*\* Looks like you don’t have an answer for Biggirl’s questions.:rolleyes: Pot calling the kettle black, much? ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/139 "2003-01-01T17:35:10Z")
[Here](http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/1001coaches.html), **meatros.** ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/140 "2003-01-01T19:00:22Z")
Um, **verybdog** , you do realize that the link is to a report from a group with no connection to the NFL, fronted by Johnnie Corchran, who is talking about proposed changes to the NFL that they are unlikely to accept. So, it isn’t a requirement. It isn’t even a proposed change by the NFL. It’s an outside group asking for a change based on limited data. The NFL is working with groups inside and outside the league to increase minority representation in the front office, a situation that does appear to not reflect the numbers of black players in the ranks. I’m not clear how this relates to you father/daughter situation in the OP. Can you make the connection more clear to me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=8)