# Is teaching your daughter racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776 "2002-12-24T22:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/161 "2003-01-05T01:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Dopers’ rushing to a ‘racist’ conclusion soon as they saw the word ‘black’ only proves that America is a racial over-sensitive society, which is quite ridiculous. \*\* And another thing, I think quite a few doper’s “rushed” to judgement because you said: “The story goes: (A) a white father’s telling her daughter to study hard to be a lawyer and (B) a white father’s tell her daughter not to marry a Black.” What sort of message does that send? Why did you say “a Black”? Why didn’t you say “a black person”? Then you said: "Some people here told me already that (B) is racist; I reasoned, if (B) is racist, then (A) must also be racist because first, the daughter may not want to be a lawyer but a hooker, secondly, the father is discriminating the profession of hookers by telling so. " What’s the message here?: A.Father wants daughter to be a lawyer, because lawyer is good/better than a hooker. (hooker is bad). B.Father wants daughter to marry any “race” other than “a black”, because “a black” is somehow not as good/equal to any other “race”. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/162 "2003-01-05T07:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\* > What’s the message here?: > > A.Father wants daughter to be a lawyer, because lawyer is good/better than a hooker. (hooker is bad). > > \*\* The message here is that the father is a racist. (on the surface he is seemingly a classist). Why? the father knows that lawyers made up mostly whites, hookers made up mostly blacks. He wants his daughter to marry whites, and he doesn’t want a black son-in-law. Therefore he asks her daughter to become a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/163 "2003-01-05T13:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*The message here is that the father is a racist. (on the surface he is seemingly a classist). Why? the father knows that lawyers made up mostly whites, hookers made up mostly blacks. He wants his daughter to marry whites, and he doesn’t want a black son-in-law. Therefore he asks her daughter to become a lawyer. \*\* Do you honestly believe nothing in what you just wrote is racist? The assumption that hookers are mostly black doesn’t sound racist to you? Where do you get this, do you have any proof of that assertion? How about “he doesn’t want a black son-in-law”? Why not? Are they any less human/less good than a non-black son-in-law? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/164 "2003-01-05T13:50:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*The message here is that the father is a racist. (on the surface he is seemingly a classist). Why? the father knows that lawyers made up mostly whites, hookers made up mostly blacks. He wants his daughter to marry whites, and he doesn’t want a black son-in-law. Therefore he asks her daughter to become a lawyer. \*\* Are you agreeing that the father is a racist? I think I might have gotten a little carried away in my last response. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/165 "2003-01-05T14:09:12Z")
There are reasons to want your daughter to avoid becoming a hooker that have nothing to do with race. You are making some very tenuous connections here. The vast majority of all professions in the US have a majority of white workers, since the US has a majority white population. It seems like your father’s argument is that he wants his daughter to not associate with blacks in any way, on the off chance that somehow she’ll end up marrying one. The basis for this is that he doesn’t like blacks, plain and simple. You’ve provided no base motivation for the father’s actions other than he doesn’t like blacks. The biology argument (preserving the breed) is baseless. No other motivation has been given. Care to supply one? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/166 "2003-01-05T14:19:55Z")
God forbid, what would happen if everyone looked like Halle Berry, Alicia Keyes, Mariah Carey, and Derek Jeter? Think of the children! ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/167 "2003-01-05T16:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*God forbid, what would happen if everyone looked like Halle Berry, Alicia Keyes, Mariah Carey, and Derek Jeter? Think of the children! \*\* Well um…except for Derek Jeter and Mariah Carey, I can tell you what would happen: Less trees being destroyed, because I wouldn’t need as many tissues:D ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/168 "2003-01-05T16:29:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > **hookers made up mostly blacks.** I want to be very clear here: Is this part of your example of what the father believes, or do you believe this? ---
**Author:** ![Doug1943](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Doug1943](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug1943)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/169 "2003-01-06T02:46:39Z")
Surely the answer to this question is, why is the father saying this? Suppose the daughter asked, “Why shouldn’t I marry a black man, daddy?” and the father said, “Because most people are racist idiots and will make life unhappy for both of you”. He might be wrong, or lying about his real motivations, but that’s not a “racist” answer. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/170 "2003-01-06T15:19:43Z")
Nice first post, **Doug1943**. This reason is more a condemnation of society than those who suffer the “racist idiots.” It is sad that racist baggage from the last several centuries gets in the way of kids trying to date. **Meatros** , you must admit that Mariah Carey and Derek Jeter would probably have some attractive children. I think the four I named are multi-racial\* and almost universally accepted as, um, shagable contingent on sexual preference, etc. Seriously, what’s not to like about Halle Berry or Alicia Keyes? They would make the top ten of “most want to be stranded on a desert island with in 2003.” \*Not wanting to get involved in a technical discussion of what a “race” is, DNA, whatnot. I think race may be an archaic concept in the modern world. Observed collections of genetic traits in populations are much more precise and useful than old notions about race. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/171 "2003-01-06T15:28:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*_Nice first post, **Doug1943**. > This reason is more a condemnation of society than those who suffer the “racist idiots.” It is sad that racist baggage from the last several centuries gets in the way of kids trying to date. > **Meatros** , you must admit that Mariah Carey and Derek Jeter would probably have some attractive children. I think the four I named are multi-racial_ and almost universally accepted as, um, shagable contingent on sexual preference, etc. \*\* I wasn’t trying to imply that their children wouldn’t be attractive or anything of that sort. To me though Mariah Carey just doesn’t do it. It could be because of the perception of her that I have, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/172 "2003-01-06T18:09:33Z")
Let’s say the reason the father doesn’t want his daughter marrying a black is this: He just wants to be with his own kind inside the family. Why that’s racist? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/173 "2003-01-06T18:23:11Z")
Because the only criteria he is using for “own kind” is race. It’s the definition of racism. ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/174 "2003-01-06T18:25:12Z")
What does he mean by “his own kind”? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/175 "2003-01-06T18:56:14Z")
I have a question for the OP. Is the purpose of this thread to determine what is and what isn’t racism, or is it to take an existant behavior and come up with an excuse to justify it? If it’s the former, that could have been handled in the first response. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/176 "2003-01-06T19:32:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Let’s say the reason the father doesn’t want his daughter marrying a black is this: > > He just wants to be with his own kind inside the family. > > Why that’s racist? \*\* What is “his own kind” supposed to mean? How can you honestly ask if this is racist?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/177 "2003-01-06T19:46:57Z")
In **verybdog** ’s defense, I’m certain that “his own kind” _doesn’t_ mean “white people” (as one would naturally assume seeing as how no additional information is given about his daughter’s potential husband other than his skin color), since that would be definitively racist and **verybdog** has clearly stated that the father is _not_ a racist in any way shape or form. He probably meant to say “Let’s say that the reason the father doesn’t want his daughter marrying a black guy **who also sacrifices babies to a statue of Mussolini that he constructed out of his own feces** is this:” Surely _that_ wouldn’t be racist of the father… ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/178 "2003-01-06T19:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by verybdog \* > \*\*Let’s say the reason the father doesn’t want his daughter marrying a black is this: > > He just wants to be with his own kind inside the family. > > Why that’s racist? \*\* Why don’t you give us the whole story. The feeling I’m getting is you are asking about your father, or a friend’s father. Give us the whole story, what the father’s reasons are, what his definitions are, and what context everything is being presented in. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/179 "2003-01-06T20:13:28Z")
**Doug:** _Surely the answer to this question is, why is the father saying this?_ Right, and welcome to the SDMB! We’ve been asking that question for several dozen posts now, and repeatedly commenting that whether or not the father is racist depends on his motivation. This doesn’t seem to have sunk in for **verybdog** , who keeps insisting nonetheless that we are just rushing to the conclusion that the father must be racist. Once again, **verybdog** , believing that any person of a different race is automatically “not your own kind” and doesn’t belong in your family **IS RACIST**. If that’s your hypothetical father’s motivation, then **YES, HE’S BEING RACIST**. How many more times do you need this explained to you? Do you seriously not understand why racial separatism is considered a form of racism? Because it falls squarely into the category of the second part of the classic definition of “racism” kindly provided by **Meatros** above: i.e., “discrimination or prejudice based on race.” If you don’t like the official definition of racism, please go complain to the compilers of the dictionary. Quit banging your head against the brick wall of trying to redefine the term to suit your own peculiar conceptions; you’re giving us all a headache. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776/180 "2003-01-06T21:49:01Z")
I’m just baffled as to **why** the OP is trying to make the hypothetical father **not a racist**. The OP’s motives, in my mind, are either: It’s about her father, and she’s the daughter or the OP **really** doesn’t understand. If it’s the latter then I have to ask, is english your first language? Also, how old are you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-teaching-your-daughter-racism/144776.md?page=10)